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Re: PROV-ISSUE-395: Rename hadOriginalSource to "originatedFrom"? [prov-dm]

From: Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl>
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 21:35:49 +0200
Message-ID: <CAJCyKRrfuOL=2vjENAVkjF6xGWeHvr6-1nztS9S34CMHnybTYg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Jim McCusker <mccusj@rpi.edu>
Cc: Timothy Lebo <lebot@rpi.edu>, Provenance Working Group <public-prov-wg@w3.org>
Yeah, this is what I was thinking as well.

Paul

On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 6:37 PM, Jim McCusker <mccusj@rpi.edu> wrote:
> hadPrimarySource is much clearer. Anyone who has paid attention in history
> class (at least in the US) should be familiar with the idea of primary
> sources, so I think it's probably the most useful term.
>
> Jim
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl> wrote:
>>
>> Hi TIm,
>>
>> I think i'm bending your way. If other's think primary source is more
>> intelligible then I'm happy to change this.
>> I think Luc also finally "got' this relation when I pointed him to the
>> wiki page so maybe that says something as well.
>>
>> cheers
>> Paul
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 4:13 PM, Timothy Lebo <lebot@rpi.edu> wrote:
>> >
>> > On Jun 5, 2012, at 9:06 AM, Paul Groth wrote:
>> >
>> >> This is the same intent as the google definition of original source in
>> >> my reading of their post. I would consider  primary source but think
>> >> original source has some history of usage on the web already.
>> >
>> > Where on the web is "original source" used?
>> > Blogging?
>> >
>> > Anywhere else?
>> > I'm not a blogger, and I haven't seen "original source".
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Tim
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> cheers
>> >> Paul
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 3:03 PM, Timothy Lebo <lebot@rpi.edu> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> On Jun 5, 2012, at 8:48 AM, Paul Groth wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Yeah, orginalsource had the meaning
>> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_source
>> >>>
>> >>> Oh, did we shift from the meaning taken from that Google Blog about
>> >>> journalism ?
>> >>> (which, I can't find in any public draft, so I guess "yes"…)
>> >>>
>> >>> I like the description at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_source
>> >>>     __much__ better,
>> >>> I had no idea that that was the intent of hadOriginalSource.
>> >>>
>> >>> Since wikipedia choose the name "primary", perhaps we should too.
>> >>> I would be in favor of renaming:
>> >>>
>> >>>      hadOriginalSource -> hadPrimarySource
>> >>>
>> >>> Now that I understand the concept, I'd rather this than the
>> >>> "originatedFrom", which is drastically different.
>> >>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> To me a "big change" now is changing stuff that has been in the spec
>> >>>> in a number of drafts. I won't really argue hard but I want to be
>> >>>> convinced that this is worth it.
>> >>>
>> >>> That's reasonable. But perhaps it indicates that the bigger problems
>> >>> are out of the way now :-)
>> >>>
>> >>> -Tim
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Paul
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Timothy Lebo <lebot@rpi.edu> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Jun 5, 2012, at 2:54 AM, Paul Groth wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> Hi Tim,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I don't think hadOriginalSource and originatedFrom convey the same
>> >>>>>> meaning.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I think that they are pretty close in meaning, and one follows the
>> >>>>> naming style more appropriately.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> I am also a bit concerned about doing these big renames of
>> >>>>>> things.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> How do you measure "big"?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> -Tim
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> cheers
>> >>>>>> Paul
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 4:58 AM, Provenance Working Group Issue
>> >>>>>> Tracker
>> >>>>>> <sysbot+tracker@w3.org> wrote:
>> >>>>>>> PROV-ISSUE-395: Rename hadOriginalSource to "originatedFrom"?
>> >>>>>>> [prov-dm]
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/395
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Raised by: Timothy Lebo
>> >>>>>>> On product: prov-dm
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> DM editors,
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Could hadOriginalSource be renamed to "originatedFrom" ?
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I think it follows the "wasDerivedFrom" naming a little more
>> >>>>>>> closely, and avoids an exception to PROV-O's "has" naming convention.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Then, perhaps the Involvement "Source" could be renamed "Origin"?
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> And qualifiedSource would become qualifiedOrigin.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I think that this naming is a little more natural.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> (yes, this is phrased in terms of PROV-O, but an issue on DM;
>> >>>>>>> probably best product would be mapping prov-dm <->  prov-o...)
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Thanks,
>> >>>>>>> Tim
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> --
>> >>>>>> --
>> >>>>>> Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl)
>> >>>>>> http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/
>> >>>>>> Assistant Professor
>> >>>>>> Knowledge Representation & Reasoning Group
>> >>>>>> Artificial Intelligence Section
>> >>>>>> Department of Computer Science
>> >>>>>> VU University Amsterdam
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl)
>> >>>> http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/
>> >>>> Assistant Professor
>> >>>> Knowledge Representation & Reasoning Group
>> >>>> Artificial Intelligence Section
>> >>>> Department of Computer Science
>> >>>> VU University Amsterdam
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> --
>> >> Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl)
>> >> http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/
>> >> Assistant Professor
>> >> Knowledge Representation & Reasoning Group
>> >> Artificial Intelligence Section
>> >> Department of Computer Science
>> >> VU University Amsterdam
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl)
>> http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/
>> Assistant Professor
>> Knowledge Representation & Reasoning Group
>> Artificial Intelligence Section
>> Department of Computer Science
>> VU University Amsterdam
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jim McCusker
> Programmer Analyst
> Krauthammer Lab, Pathology Informatics
> Yale School of Medicine
> james.mccusker@yale.edu | (203) 785-6330
> http://krauthammerlab.med.yale.edu
>
> PhD Student
> Tetherless World Constellation
> Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
> mccusj@cs.rpi.edu
> http://tw.rpi.edu



-- 
--
Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl)
http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/
Assistant Professor
Knowledge Representation & Reasoning Group
Artificial Intelligence Section
Department of Computer Science
VU University Amsterdam
Received on Tuesday, 5 June 2012 19:36:19 UTC

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