- From: Graham Klyne <graham.klyne@zoo.ox.ac.uk>
- Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 09:27:22 +0000
- To: Stian Soiland-Reyes <soiland-reyes@cs.manchester.ac.uk>
- CC: Paolo Missier <Paolo.Missier@ncl.ac.uk>, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>, "public-prov-wg@w3.org" <public-prov-wg@w3.org>
Hmmm... this is starting to feel to me like a philosophical rathole. I think we may be muddling things and roles, as maybe illustrated by your: So similarly I would not like to conclude alternateOf(Bush, Obama) This feels like a replay of the old Fregian "Hesperus and Phosporus" sense and reference discussion. All this complexity is leading me to a view that while transitivity of alternativeOf may be appealing at some levels of intuition, it may carry too many traps and, absent a compelling requirement, we'd be better to leave it. Which I think is what Paolo is suggesting. #g -- On 18/01/2012 08:55, Stian Soiland-Reyes wrote: > On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 18:01, Graham Klyne<GK@ninebynine.org> wrote: >>> alternateOf(paoloInCafe, customerOnRedChair) >>> alternateOf(stianInCafe, customerOnRedChair) >> Hmmm... I'm not sure these actually match my intuition about alternateOf; >> i.e. that they're both versions of some real-world thing. What real-worlkd >> thing would that be? > > It would be something like the atoms of the living person who sits > within the confines of the red chair. Perhaps it is more a case of > specialization than alternateOf in this case. (and so a strong case > for why specializationOf is not a subproperty of alternateOf) > > But this thing with the atoms is not true. A customer is not a set of > atoms. A cafe *customer* is a concept which depends on the > interactions with the cafe. While Paolo was in the cafe, he sat in the > red chair and ordered coffee - and so for a period (the full lifetime > of paoloInCafe) he also became customerOnRedChair. > > > This would probably be fine then: > > specializationOf(paoloInCafe, customerOnRedChair) > specializationOf(paoloInCafe, paolo) > > --> > alternateOf(paolo, customerOnRedChair) > > which makes sense - they are both talking about the same thing. > > > > but if we also have the equivalent assertions about Stian - but the > old characterisation interval of paoloInCafe never overlaps that of > stianInCafe - then I feel they should *not* be alternateOf each other, > because they did not exist at the same time. > > So similarly I would not like to conclude alternateOf(Bush, Obama) > > .. because if we do, then as far as I can tell there is not much value > in alternateOf() any more. > > > > And that is perhaps my point. We can't have a single hierarchical > structure organizing everything that exists (and talk about "the same > real world thing"), because we include in "exists" various abstract > concepts and simplifications that are not easily mappable to our > understanding of the physical world. > > I am sure we can agree that this email message can be characterised by > an entity. However you can't easily map that entity to electrons on > the wire or photons coming out of the screen - although we are of > course aware that the message would not exists without those. > >
Received on Thursday, 19 January 2012 09:48:24 UTC