RE: complementOf -> viewOf: proposed text

I can see how the definition you have leads to the consequence you state, but it seems like the use case here is one we should be able to support - someone reports on the activities of the customer-in-the-red-chair over time and others report that Paolo and Stian were in the chair at various times and we'd like to have enough prov information to allow users to figure out who did what. 

If alternateOf is not capable of doing this, do we have some other mechanism that can? Or is the use case out of scope?

-- Jim
________________________________________
From: Paolo Missier [Paolo.Missier@ncl.ac.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 12:16 PM
To: Myers, Jim
Cc: Paolo Missier; Stian Soiland-Reyes; Luc Moreau; public-prov-wg@w3.org
Subject: Re: complementOf -> viewOf: proposed text

Jim

(haven't read your latest email, except to spot that you disagree with transitivity, but I am not prepared to argue just now)

I think unless you are prepared to accept that they are different characterization of the same real-world thing, then they should
not be alternates of each other. (at least) one of the two is not the customer in the red chair.

-Paolo

On 1/17/12 5:04 PM, Myers, Jim wrote:
> Which one do you claim is wrong? Or do you think that paolo-in-cafe and stian-in-cafe are still alternates?
>
>    -- Jim
> ________________________________________
> From: Paolo Missier [Paolo.Missier@ncl.ac.uk]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 11:37 AM
> To: Stian Soiland-Reyes
> Cc: Paolo Missier; Luc Moreau; public-prov-wg@w3.org
> Subject: Re: complementOf ->  viewOf: proposed text
>
> Hi Stian,
>
> but really,  alternateOf() is designed /precisely/ to provide to say that e1, e2, are different characterizations of the /same thing/.
>
> So if you assert
>
> alternateOf(paoloInCafe, customerOnRedChair)
>
> then you are indeed saying that they are the same thing, only using different characterizations.
> And if you then also assert that
>
> alternateOf(stianInCafe, customerOnRedChair)
>
> then inferring that
>
> alternateOf(paoloInCafe, stianInCafe)
>
> is exactly what you want. If they are meant to be different things in the world, then one of the two assertions should not be there
> in the first place, right?
>
> I hope we can agree on this!
>
> --Paolo
>
>
> On 1/17/12 3:14 PM, Stian Soiland-Reyes wrote:
>> On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 14:31, Paolo Missier<Paolo.Missier@ncl.ac.uk>   wrote:
>>
>>> I think of alternateOf as non-functional and transitive, which gives us
>>> "clusters of alternates". We may later decide that it is convenient to add
>>> properties that make a set of alternates into a lattice.
>> No, not transitive.
>>
>> entity(customerOnRedChair, [prov:location="the red chair in the cafe"])
>> entity(paoloInCafe)
>> entity(stianInCafe)
>> entity(paolo)
>> entity(stian)
>>
>> specializationOf(paoloInCafe, paolo)
>> specializationOf(stianInCafe, stian)
>>
>> alternateOf(paoloInCafe, customerOnRedChair)
>> alternateOf(stianInCafe, customerOnRedChair)
>>
>>
>> but we probably don't want to then infer:
>> alternateOf(paoloInCafe, stianInCafe)
>>
>> and certainly not:
>> alternateOf(paolo, stian)
>>
>> .. neither did overlap the old characterisation intervals, and are
>> different 'things' in the world.
>>
>>
>> however, if Paolo and Stian did not sit anywhere else but in the red
>> chair, we can also have:
>>
>>
>> specializationOf(paoloInCafe,
>> customerOnRedChair)specializationOf(stianInCafe, customerOnRedChair)
>> this implies that for the duration of paoloInCafe, it was also
>> customerOnRedChair.
>>
>
> --
> -----------  ~oo~  --------------
> Paolo Missier - Paolo.Missier@newcastle.ac.uk, pmissier@acm.org
> School of Computing Science, Newcastle University,  UK
> http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/people/Paolo.Missier
>
>


--
-----------  ~oo~  --------------
Paolo Missier - Paolo.Missier@newcastle.ac.uk, pmissier@acm.org
School of Computing Science, Newcastle University,  UK
http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/people/Paolo.Missier

Received on Tuesday, 17 January 2012 17:30:49 UTC