W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-prov-wg@w3.org > November 2011

Re: PROV-ISSUE-149 (revision-asserter): Why does revision record include an asserter? [Data Model]

From: Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 20:15:39 +0000
To: Timothy Lebo <lebot@rpi.edu>
CC: "public-prov-wg@w3.org" <public-prov-wg@w3.org>
Message-ID: <EMEW3|c4271029046fe18355cd7663c61836dfnAKKG208L.Moreau|ecs.soton.ac.uk|BB120503-F7DF-446C-BEE5-B15572D6AA19@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Hi Tim
I like this suggestion. Let me think about it.

Professor Luc Moreau
Electronics and Computer Science
University of Southampton 
Southampton SO17 1BJ
United Kingdom

On 21 Nov 2011, at 20:11, "Timothy Lebo" <lebot@rpi.edu> wrote:

> 
> On Nov 11, 2011, at 7:55 AM, Luc Moreau wrote:
> 
>> Hi Simon,
>> it's very much in line with the notion of responsibility in Yolanda's email yesterday.
> 
> Couldn't Revision be a type of Activity, where the "agent responsible for the new revision" (which may _not_ be the asserter) is the controlling agent?
> 
> If so, we can handle this using the core constructs.
> 
> I think that would also address Simon's concerns.
> 
> Regards,
> Tim
> 
> 
>> We are talking about the agent who is responsible for creating/deciding a new revision.
>> But here, because it's a convenience relation, we don't make the process explicit.
>> So, the agent responsible for the new revision doesn't have to be the asserter at all.
>> Luc
>> 
>> On 11/11/2011 12:28 PM, Simon Miles wrote:
>>> Hi Luc,
>>> 
>>> OK, but even if we distinguish "the agent who decides that a fact is
>>> true" from "the agent who asserts that fact", then I don't see why
>>> Revision is any different from any other assertion.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Simon
>>> 
>>> On 11 November 2011 12:22, Luc Moreau<L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi Simon,
>>>> It's not the case that the responsible agent is the one making the
>>>> assertion.
>>>> Luc
>>>> 
>>>> On 11/11/2011 12:01 PM, Provenance Working Group Issue Tracker wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> PROV-ISSUE-149 (revision-asserter): Why does revision record include an asserter? [Data Model]
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/149
>>>>> 
>>>>> Raised by: Simon Miles
>>>>> On product: Data Model
>>>>> 
>>>>> The Revision record contains its own asserter, but it is unclear why.
>>>>> 
>>>>> "Deciding whether something is made available as a revision of something else usually involves an agent who represents someone in the world who takes responsibility for declaring that the former is variant of the latter...
>>>>> 
>>>>> A revision record...
>>>>> may refer to a responsible agent with identifier ag."
>>>>> 
>>>>> The agent appears to be just the entity deciding whether to make the assertion or not (whether one entity is a revision of another). This is no different from any other assertion: it is always in some asserter's perspective that the assertion is true. We don't include the asserter explicitly in Used, Generated, Derived or other records, so why do we for Revision?
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Professor Luc Moreau
>>>> Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
>>>> University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865
>>>> Southampton SO17 1BJ               email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk
>>>> United Kingdom                     http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Professor Luc Moreau
>> Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
>> University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865
>> Southampton SO17 1BJ               email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk
>> United Kingdom                     http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
Received on Monday, 21 November 2011 20:16:39 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Tuesday, 6 January 2015 21:58:10 UTC