- From: Timothy Lebo <lebot@rpi.edu>
- Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:12:26 -0500
- To: Simon Miles <simon.miles@kcl.ac.uk>
- Cc: Provenance Working Group WG <public-prov-wg@w3.org>
On Nov 13, 2011, at 8:27 AM, Simon Miles wrote: > Hello, > > A follow-up clarification regarding the same issue. > > If entity Z is a revision of entity A, with an agent declaring Z a new > revision, and the resource has been through multiple changes before > this declaration, with the intermediate stages being entities B, C, > D... Y, then should the wasRevisionOf be asserted solely between Z and > A, or also between Z and B, Z and C etc.? I would say that an asserter need not assert between every each pair AB, BC, etc., -- nor should they be inferred -- since the wasRevisionOf exists to highlight particular Entities along the derivation chain*. -Tim *since wasRevisionOf is a specialization of wasDerivedFrom. > > Thanks, > Simon > > On 11 November 2011 13:14, Miles, Simon <simon.miles@kcl.ac.uk> wrote: >> Hi Luc, >> >> OK, but the text says the agent has "responsibility for declaring that >> the former is variant of the latter", and I'm not clear if that's the >> same as the "creating/deciding" you refer to in your mail. >> >> I understand that the agent is responsible for some process, but which >> process are we not making explicit? There may be multiple processes, >> controlled by different agents, to get from one revision of a document >> to another. So is this just for asserting the cases where there is a >> final step (process) in which one agent "creates" the new revision >> entity by "signing off" the changes since the previous revision? >> >> If this is the case, I get the intent and my issue can be closed, but >> I don't think the text is clear enough. It would be good to describe >> the situation above, to know that it is here that the concept applies, >> and pinpoint the "declaring agent" within it. >> >> Thanks, >> Simon >> >> On 11 November 2011 12:56, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote: >>> Hi Simon, >>> it's very much in line with the notion of responsibility in Yolanda's >>> email yesterday. >>> We are talking about the agent who is responsible for creating/deciding >>> a new revision. >>> But here, because it's a convenience relation, we don't make the process >>> explicit. >>> So, the agent responsible for the new revision doesn't have to be the >>> asserter at all. >>> Luc >>> >>> On 11/11/2011 12:28 PM, Simon Miles wrote: >>>> Hi Luc, >>>> >>>> OK, but even if we distinguish "the agent who decides that a fact is >>>> true" from "the agent who asserts that fact", then I don't see why >>>> Revision is any different from any other assertion. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Simon >>>> >>>> On 11 November 2011 12:22, Luc Moreau<L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Simon, >>>>> It's not the case that the responsible agent is the one making the >>>>> assertion. >>>>> Luc >>>>> >>>>> On 11/11/2011 12:01 PM, Provenance Working Group Issue Tracker wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> PROV-ISSUE-149 (revision-asserter): Why does revision record include an asserter? [Data Model] >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/149 >>>>>> >>>>>> Raised by: Simon Miles >>>>>> On product: Data Model >>>>>> >>>>>> The Revision record contains its own asserter, but it is unclear why. >>>>>> >>>>>> "Deciding whether something is made available as a revision of something else usually involves an agent who represents someone in the world who takes responsibility for declaring that the former is variant of the latter... >>>>>> >>>>>> A revision record... >>>>>> may refer to a responsible agent with identifier ag." >>>>>> >>>>>> The agent appears to be just the entity deciding whether to make the assertion or not (whether one entity is a revision of another). This is no different from any other assertion: it is always in some asserter's perspective that the assertion is true. We don't include the asserter explicitly in Used, Generated, Derived or other records, so why do we for Revision? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Professor Luc Moreau >>>>> Electronics and Computer Science tel: +44 23 8059 4487 >>>>> University of Southampton fax: +44 23 8059 2865 >>>>> Southampton SO17 1BJ email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk >>>>> United Kingdom http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Professor Luc Moreau >>> Electronics and Computer Science tel: +44 23 8059 4487 >>> University of Southampton fax: +44 23 8059 2865 >>> Southampton SO17 1BJ email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk >>> United Kingdom http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Dr Simon Miles >> Lecturer, Department of Informatics >> Kings College London, WC2R 2LS, UK >> +44 (0)20 7848 1166 >> >> > > > > -- > Dr Simon Miles > Lecturer, Department of Informatics > Kings College London, WC2R 2LS, UK > +44 (0)20 7848 1166 > >
Received on Monday, 21 November 2011 20:13:02 UTC