- From: Jim Hendler <hendler@cs.rpi.edu>
- Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:21:34 -0500
- To: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>
- Cc: Michael Schneider <schneid@fzi.de>, Ian Horrocks <ian.horrocks@comlab.ox.ac.uk>, "Web Ontology Language ((OWL)) Working Group WG" <public-owl-wg@w3.org>, Jeremy Carroll <jjc@hpl.hp.com>
+1 (Michael, I think you've got it!) On Feb 13, 2008, at 6:20 AM, Ivan Herman wrote: > Michael, > > I do tutorials on RDF & co regularly. When talking about RDFS, and > what it does, I *always* use those entailement rules to explain, for > example, what subclassing mean more formally. I never ever refer to > the model theoretic thing. And that has worked very well in my > experience, people get it and they are happy:-) > > So if such set of entailement rules were available for OWL Full > (even if informative, even if imprecise in some corner cases) that > would be really good in my view... > > My 2 cents > > Thanks > > Ivan > > Michael Schneider wrote: >> Hi Ian and Jim! >> (Ok, this might become a bit controversal, but let's see... :)) >> Maybe there is an option, which might work, and which has >> precedence. Ivan came up with an interesting point last week [1]. >> He stated that the RDF semantics spec [2] "includes a bunch of >> entailment rules which are the type of axiomatic rules that you >> [Jim] refer to". I think this is a relevant observation. >> As I wrote in [3], the OWL-Full semantics are actually specified as >> a set of model-theoretic "semantic conditions". And I believe that >> it really is appropriate to /specify/ the OWL-Full semantics for >> the different language features in this way. When I have a QCR >> described by a set of RDF triples, then defining the meaning of >> this collection of triples by set theoretical means is clear and >> straightforward, IMO. And I think this also eases the task of >> making OWL-Full "downwards" compatible with OWL-DL, since one can >> try to "borrow a little bit" from those specifications which >> already exist in the DL semantics document. :) Anyway, doing it >> this way will give us the desirable rigour. >> On the other hand, I believe that the semantic conditions often do >> not very well show how OWL-Full "works", or how parts of it can be >> implemented. Much better is this captured, IMHO, by "triple >> entailment rules". By this I mean rules, which get a few RDF >> triples as their input, and fire a few new RDF triples as their >> output, e.g.: >> IF (?x rdfs:subClassOf ?y) AND (?y rdfs:subClassOf ?z) THEN >> (?x rdfs:subClassOf ?z) >> The "meaning" of a given RDF graph can then be understood to be the >> inference graph, which consists of the original triples, and all >> those triples which are additionally entailed by all triple >> entailment rules. >> Semantic conditions do not have such a triple-to-triple form, and >> for the example above doesn't even exist a semantic condition which >> could be regarded to be the "direct model-theoretic analogon". >> However, it isn't hard to see that from OWL-Full semantics the >> above triple entailment rule can be "derived" (in some sense). >> The RDF(S) semantics spec [2] contains a section which itemizes a >> set of such triple entailment rules [4]. This is an /informative/ >> section, while the sections which introduce the semantic conditions >> are normative. If I had to point someone to a resource where he can >> learn how OWL-Full "works", I think I would rather point him to >> this collection of triple entailment rules. >> Regrettably, there is no such collection of triple entailment rules >> in the OWL-1.0-Full spec. I would think that having such a >> collection would be a win, and I expect the costs for its creation >> to be mediocre. Perhaps, such a collection doesn't even have to be >> complete, if this is possible at all. But even a "proper selection" >> would already be of value, I suppose. Such an informative section >> which itemizes triple entailment rules should probably not be part >> of the UFDs, since it would still be very technical. Of course, one >> could have a few of these rules in a Primer document as examples >> for explaining OWL-Full, and then point to the respective section >> in the Full semantics spec as a reference. Btw: The above example >> of a triple entailment rule does not just accidentally look similar >> to a Jena rule [5]. :) AFAIU, the Jena inference support actually >> follows the triple entailment rule approach as given in [4], see [6]. >> Cheers, >> Michael >> [1] <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Feb/0051.html >> > >> [2] <http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-mt/> >> [3] <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Feb/0068.html >> > >> [4] <http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-mt/#rules> >> [5] <http://jena.sourceforge.net/inference/index.html#rules> >> [6] <http://jena.sourceforge.net/inference/index.html#RDFSintro> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: public-owl-wg-request@w3.org [mailto:public-owl-wg-request@w3.org >>> ] On Behalf Of Ian Horrocks >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 7:09 PM >>> To: Jeremy Carroll >>> Cc: Jim Hendler; Web Ontology Language ((OWL)) Working Group WG >>> Subject: Re: OWL Full proposal (sort of) - addressing my Action >>> >>> >>> I share Jeremy's desire to maintain a significant degree of >>> rigour w.r.t. OWL Full; in fact I would say the same for all >>> species/ fragments/conformance-levels. Moreover, from what Jim >>> says in emails such as [1] it would seem that he has no objection >>> to this and perhaps even believes it to be mandatory. Instead, >>> what he seems to be asking for (in [1] at least) is a more human >>> readable explanation for those who find model theories difficult >>> to understand. I don't see any problem with that -- in fact we >>> already have a commitment to producing such documents and even a >>> UFDTF busily engaged in their development. So, if we were to >>> agree to produce a "delta to OWL-1.0- Full" as outlined by Michael >>> in [2] plus suitable documentation for the MT-challenged, would >>> this satisfy everyone's requirements? >>> >>> Ian >>> >>> [1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Feb/0069.html >>> [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Feb/0068.html >> -- >> Dipl.-Inform. Michael Schneider >> FZI Forschungszentrum Informatik Karlsruhe >> Abtl. Information Process Engineering (IPE) >> Tel : +49-721-9654-726 >> Fax : +49-721-9654-727 >> Email: Michael.Schneider@fzi.de >> Web : http://www.fzi.de/ipe/eng/mitarbeiter.php?id=555 >> FZI Forschungszentrum Informatik an der Universität Karlsruhe >> Haid-und-Neu-Str. 10-14, D-76131 Karlsruhe >> Tel.: +49-721-9654-0, Fax: +49-721-9654-959 >> Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts >> Az: 14-0563.1 Regierungspräsidium Karlsruhe >> Vorstand: Rüdiger Dillmann, Michael Flor, Jivka Ovtcharova, Rudi >> Studer >> Vorsitzender des Kuratoriums: Ministerialdirigent Günther Leßnerkraus > > -- > > Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead > Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/ > PGP Key: http://www.ivan-herman.net/pgpkey.html > FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf > "If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?." - Albert Einstein Prof James Hendler http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~hendler Tetherless World Constellation Chair Computer Science Dept Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY 12180
Received on Wednesday, 13 February 2008 14:22:58 UTC