Re: Summary of Telco 07.02.2014

Hi John, all,

  these issues have been adressed during the telco today, right?

We agreed to introduce a separate translation property.

We have to talk about whether to keep the confidence property in the 
model. The decision on this was not clear.

I wish you all a nice weekend!

Philipp.

Am 21.02.14 14:58, schrieb John P. McCrae:
> Hi all,
>
> Reading through the spec, I have 3 main comments to discuss
>
>  1. Why do we only talk about reified variation, cannot I not use a
>     single property to link senses?
>  2. Why do we propose using a property to indicate the type of
>     variation unless it is a translation, when we introduce a subclass?
>  3. How do we intend to define "translation confidence", this is
>     surely a property that is specific to each resource?
>
> Regards,
> John
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 10:51 PM, Philipp Cimiano 
> <cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de 
> <mailto:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de>> wrote:
>
>     Dear all,
>
>      I would like to invite you all to the 44th (!) Friday ontolex
>     telco, at 15:00 (CET).
>
>     See this link for access details:
>     https://www.w3.org/community/ontolex/wiki/Teleconference,_2014.21.02,_15-16_pm_CET
>
>     I think our only topic is to finally sort out the translation /
>     variant issues.
>
>     Talk to you tomorrow,
>
>     Philipp.
>
>     Am 20.02.14 22:36, schrieb John P. McCrae:
>>     Yes, I am not sure "normal people" understand what is meant by
>>     "subsumption" or "shared superconcept" either!
>>
>>     Gilles' example is essentially the same as the translation
>>     "gehen"=>"to go" from German to English
>>
>>     I can say that "ich gehe zum Post"/"I go to the post office" but
>>     most Germans look at me funny when I say "ich gehe nach Rußland"
>>     (for non-Germans this implies I am walking to Russia)
>>
>>     As such we can say that "gehen" has reference "MovementByWalking"
>>     and "to go" has reference "Movement". If we take the definition
>>     of translation as it stands, this means that "gehen" is not a
>>     translation of "to go". The only solution would be to create an
>>     extra sense of "to go" in English that refers to
>>     "MovementByWalking", which is an artificial solution from the
>>     point of view in English.
>>
>>     I don't think it is a good solution either to say that "gehen"
>>     and "to go" are cultural equivalents for obvious reasons.
>>
>>     Regards,
>>     John
>>
>>
>>     On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 10:27 PM, Philipp Cimiano
>>     <cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de
>>     <mailto:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de>> wrote:
>>
>>         John,
>>
>>          I know that "directly ontologically related either through
>>         subsumption or via a shared superconcept" is sort of
>>         meaningless, but normal people that do not understand OWL
>>         understand; in some sense this refers to an explicitly
>>         materialized concept hierarchy and directly means then:
>>         direct super or superconcept.
>>
>>         In any case, I am fine with changing the definitions, that's
>>         what we should discuss in our telco tomorrow.
>>
>>         But a question in return: it is not clear to me how we
>>         formally distinguish the cases of "translation" and "cultural
>>         equivalent".
>>
>>         We should IMHO distinguish a lexical substituion that has no
>>         change form an ontological point of view and a lexical
>>         substituion that implies a change from an ontological point
>>         of view.
>>
>>         Best,
>>
>>         Philipp.
>>
>>         Am 20.02.14 22:13, schrieb John P. McCrae:
>>>         Well... we shouldn't say this.
>>>
>>>         We also shouldn't be saying things like "directly
>>>         ontologically related either through subsumption or via a
>>>         shared superconcept." (which is meaningless, as everything
>>>         has a shared superconcept owl:Thing).
>>>
>>>         The reason is as follows: "lexical" translation is a
>>>         "lexical" property defined in the "lexicon", as such the
>>>         definitions should be explainable in lexical. Or put another
>>>         way, if we wish to say two word senses have the same
>>>         reference, we can do that giving them the same reference!
>>>         The translation property indicates that there is a lexical
>>>         substitution possible in the translation process.
>>>
>>>         We should also be more careful about implications on the
>>>         ontology. In particular, we wrote a paper about this, and it
>>>         is very clear from that paper that equivalence of sense can
>>>         not imply equivalence of references:
>>>         http://www.lemon-model.net/papers/senses.pdf
>>>
>>>         Regards,
>>>         John
>>>
>>>
>>>         On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 9:58 PM, Philipp Cimiano
>>>         <cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de
>>>         <mailto:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de>> wrote:
>>>
>>>             John, all,
>>>
>>>                The thing is that we define "Translation" as implying
>>>             same references. That has an implication, although we do
>>>             not model this axiomatically.
>>>
>>>             Are we on the same line?
>>>
>>>             Philipp.
>>>
>>>             Am 20.02.14 21:55, schrieb John P. McCrae:
>>>>             Hi
>>>>
>>>>             I don't think we should be able to infer any
>>>>             ontological relation especially not owl:sameAs from a
>>>>             translation property. The translation property simply
>>>>             means that you could consider one of the senses to
>>>>             "align" with the foreign term in translation (with the
>>>>             definition of align being fuzzy). We merely distinguish
>>>>             between translations and cultural-equivalent, which
>>>>             describe whether there is an intentional change in the
>>>>             meaning of a sentence. If you want to say that there is
>>>>             ontological equivalence that should be done in the
>>>>             ontology only.
>>>>
>>>>             To answer Philipp's earlier question, some interesting
>>>>             examples of cognates are "Tisch"@de (=table) and
>>>>             "discus"@la (=disc) or "mandibola"@it (=jaw) and
>>>>             "mandibles"@en
>>>>
>>>>             Regards,
>>>>             John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>             On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 9:39 PM, Philipp Cimiano
>>>>             <cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de
>>>>             <mailto:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                 Dear Gilles,
>>>>
>>>>                 yes you are right. I understand that this might
>>>>                 negatively affect the usability of the model. And I
>>>>                 am fully aware that people might use it sloppily,
>>>>                 actually without to many unwanted implications as
>>>>                 long as you do not use an OWL reasoner ;-)
>>>>
>>>>                 The alternative would be to give up the distinction
>>>>                 between semantics-preserving interlingual variants
>>>>                 (translation) and non-semantics-preserving
>>>>                 interlingual variants (cultural equivalents), or
>>>>                 call them differently and make translation the
>>>>                 superclass.
>>>>
>>>>                 Any opinions on this? I tend to see "translation"
>>>>                 indeed as semantics-preserving, but this is only a
>>>>                 gut feeling and not well-founded.
>>>>
>>>>                 Another issue: we discussed having a third type of
>>>>                 Interlingual variant, something like a
>>>>                 "cross-lingual paraphrase" class for the case in
>>>>                 which "paella" is paraphrased in English as
>>>>                 "typical rice dish from Spanish origin".
>>>>
>>>>                 Elena: I think this is what you had in mind, right?
>>>>
>>>>                 Regards,
>>>>
>>>>                 Philipp.
>>>>
>>>>                 Am 20.02.14 21:31, schrieb Gilles Sérasset:
>>>>>                 Dear Philipp,
>>>>>
>>>>>                 Thanks, this clarifies the matter.
>>>>>
>>>>>                 Tough I fear that the encoding of legacy lexica in
>>>>>                 ontolex will not be very easy, as most of the
>>>>>                 time, such lexica does not really make the
>>>>>                 difference... I fear many ontolex encoded lexica
>>>>>                 will use the Translation relation regardless of
>>>>>                 the implications when linked to an ontology.
>>>>>
>>>>>                 Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>>                 Gilles,
>>>>>
>>>>>                 On 20 févr. 2014, at 20:40, Philipp Cimiano
>>>>>                 <cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de
>>>>>                 <mailto:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>                 Dear Gilles,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 thanks for your comment. Yes indeed, if we use
>>>>>>                 "Translation" in the case you mention, we would
>>>>>>                 infer that concept:rice owl:sameAs
>>>>>>                 concept:cooked_rice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 We would infer equality of punned individuals.
>>>>>>                 Technically, it does not follow though that the
>>>>>>                 concepts are equivalent. It is a delicate OWL2
>>>>>>                 issue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 In any case, your statement is correct. If that
>>>>>>                 is not as intended in your example (which I
>>>>>>                 assume) then in your case the relation
>>>>>>                 "CulturalEquivalent" should be used which is
>>>>>>                 supposed to be used in exactly such a case where
>>>>>>                 there is some direct ontological relation between
>>>>>>                 both concepts, in our case concept:rice subsumes
>>>>>>                 concept:cooked_rice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 So the use of "Translation" is wrong in your case
>>>>>>                 because it has unwanted implications.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 Do you agree?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 Philipp.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 Am 20.02.14 10:02, schrieb Gilles Sérasset:
>>>>>>>                 Dear all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                 I have a question regarding Translation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                 Lets take the japanese of 御飯 (gohan), which
>>>>>>>                 has a meaning of "cooked rice".
>>>>>>>                 Lets take the english term "rice" (which refers
>>>>>>>                 to cooked or uncooked rice, indistinctly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                 I consider both terms as translations of each
>>>>>>>                 others, even if they do not share the reference.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                 Indeed, I do think that the Translation relation
>>>>>>>                 is useful, as the lexicon should exist even if
>>>>>>>                 no conceptualization is available. It is also
>>>>>>>                 really useful to encode existing lexica.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                 But with this definition, if my lexicon state
>>>>>>>                 that gohan is a translation of rice, then we
>>>>>>>                 would legitimately infer that concept:rice
>>>>>>>                 owl:sameAs concept:cooked_rice.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                 Isn't it a problem in itself ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                 Regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                 Gilles,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                 On 13 févr. 2014, at 16:22, Philipp Cimiano
>>>>>>>                 <cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de
>>>>>>>                 <mailto:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 Hi Elena,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                    just to clarify intuitions. I am calling a
>>>>>>>>                 Translation something which preserves the
>>>>>>>>                 reference (no matter if literal or not).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 So according to what I have now it holds that:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 Class: var:Translation
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 SubclassOf:
>>>>>>>>                          ontolex:InterlingualVariant
>>>>>>>>                          ontolex:TermVariant
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 rdfs:comment "The relation between two lexical senses in different languages the references of which are the same."@en
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 So this means that Translation is a relation
>>>>>>>>                 between two Lexical Senses in different
>>>>>>>>                 languages the reference of which is the same.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 On the other hand, CulturalEquivalent (or
>>>>>>>>                 simply Equivalent!) is defined as follows:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 Class: var:CulturalEquivalent
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 SubclassOf:
>>>>>>>>                          ontolex:InterlingualVariant
>>>>>>>>                          ontolex:SemanticVariant
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 rdfs:comment "The relation between two lexical senses in different languages the references of which are directly ontologically related either through subsumption or via a shared superconcept."@en
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 i.e. the references are directly ontologically
>>>>>>>>                 related, does this make sense?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 Philipp.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 Am 13.02.14 16:10, schrieb Philipp Cimiano:
>>>>>>>>>                 Hi Elena,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                 see below
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                 Am 13.02.14 13:13, schrieb Elena Montiel Ponsoda:
>>>>>>>>>>                 Dear Philipp,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                 Thanks for the updates.
>>>>>>>>>>                 I have direclty modified the text in the
>>>>>>>>>>                 specification (maybe I should not?), but we
>>>>>>>>>>                 can still reconsider this...
>>>>>>>>>>                 On the one hand, I thought it is important to
>>>>>>>>>>                 specify already at the introduction that
>>>>>>>>>>                 there is one type of variation that is
>>>>>>>>>>                 established between LexicalEntries (i.e.,
>>>>>>>>>>                 define LexicalVariants), how do you see it?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                 Yes fine, I should remove the restriction from
>>>>>>>>>                 Variants that requires LexicalSense, I will do
>>>>>>>>>                 it now.
>>>>>>>>>>                 On the other, I was not so happy with the
>>>>>>>>>>                 "terminology" used when dealing with
>>>>>>>>>>                 cross-lingual variants, specifically when
>>>>>>>>>>                 stating that Translations are literal
>>>>>>>>>>                 translations...
>>>>>>>>>                 Fair enough, if the idea is removing "literal"
>>>>>>>>>                 I am agnostic ;-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                 From the Translation discipline perspective,
>>>>>>>>>>                 this would be problematic, IMHO.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                   * I think we should refer to them as
>>>>>>>>>>                     Translations or Interlingual variants (in
>>>>>>>>>>                     general). That is what people interested
>>>>>>>>>>                     in multilinguality will be looking for, I
>>>>>>>>>>                     think. If you think that the MultiWordNet
>>>>>>>>>>                     community would be happier with
>>>>>>>>>>                     Inter-lingual variant is fine, but the
>>>>>>>>>>                     translation or terminology community will
>>>>>>>>>>                     be looking for "translation". Would it be
>>>>>>>>>>                     feasible to keep both denominations?
>>>>>>>>>>                     Since this is a lexicon model (for
>>>>>>>>>>                     ontologies, of course, but still we are
>>>>>>>>>>                     at the lexical level), I would be
>>>>>>>>>>                     inclined to think that the most
>>>>>>>>>>                     appropriate term is translation, but I am
>>>>>>>>>>                     open to change my mind... :)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                 OK, so why not having "InterlingualVariant" as
>>>>>>>>>                 a subClass of "TermVariant" (instead of
>>>>>>>>>                 TerminologyVariant) and then
>>>>>>>>>                 Translation and CulturalEquivalent and
>>>>>>>>>                 "CulturalParaphase" as subclasses of
>>>>>>>>>                 InterlingualVariant.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                 Would that be appropriate?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                   * As for the types of translation we may
>>>>>>>>>>                     account for, I would talk of
>>>>>>>>>>                     "equivalents", but not identify
>>>>>>>>>>                     "translations" exclusivly and explicitly
>>>>>>>>>>                     with "literal translations". I was trying
>>>>>>>>>>                     to make this clear during out last telco,
>>>>>>>>>>                     but maybe I failed... :) That is why I
>>>>>>>>>>                     was proposing direct equivalents, to
>>>>>>>>>>                     distinguish them from cultural equivalents.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                 Fair enough, if you are arguing for dropping
>>>>>>>>>                 the "literal" I am fine.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                 As for the question in your e-mail referring
>>>>>>>>>>                 to "paraphrase", yes, I think we could put it
>>>>>>>>>>                 that way...
>>>>>>>>>>                 Best,
>>>>>>>>>>                 Elena
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                 El 13/02/2014 10:02, Philipp Cimiano escribió:
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Hi Elena, all,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                  I have updated the wiki reflecting the
>>>>>>>>>>>                 discussion of last week; however, I have not
>>>>>>>>>>>                 introduced SenseRelations explicitly yet. I
>>>>>>>>>>>                 am not sure we should.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 In any case, we agree in principle on the
>>>>>>>>>>>                 categories mentioned by you Elena, but I
>>>>>>>>>>>                 have one question on the lexical equivalent:
>>>>>>>>>>>                 this is essentially a paraphrase, right?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Philipp.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Am 07.02.14 17:27, schrieb Elena Montiel
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Ponsoda:
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Dear John,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Thanks for the summary (Philipp, do not
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 stay away... we missed you... ;)).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Regarding the Translation part, I think we
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 had a nice discussion, but we need to work
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 a little bit more on that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 I tend to think of Term Variants as within
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 the same language (intra-lingua), and
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Translations between languages
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 (inter-lingua). For this reason, I am not
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 so sure I would like to consider
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Translation a Term Variant, but I will
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 further think about it... :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 In a paper we at UPM just got accepted at
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 the LREC conference, we were proposing 3
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 different types of *translation equivalents*.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>                  1. *direct equivalent *(what people
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     normally understad as "pure
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     translation"): The two terms describe
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     semantically equivalent entities that
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     refer to entities that exist in both
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     cultures and languages. E.g. surrogate
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     mother, madre de alquiler, mère
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     porteuse. It is true that they could
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     further be considered *dimensional
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     variants*, since each language/culture
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     emphasizes a different aspect of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     concept.
>>>>>>>>>>>>                  2. *cultural equivalent*: Typically, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     two terms describe entities that are
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     not semantically but pragmatically
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     equivalent, since they describe similar
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     situations in different cultures and
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     languages. E.g., “Ecole Normal” (FR)
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     “Teachers college” (EN). The Prime
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     Minister and Busdeskanzler example
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     would also be valid here. And I think
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     this is the type of *link or
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     cross-lingual alignment you would use
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     in **Interlingual Indexes for WordNets
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     when no "direct equivalent" in available*.
>>>>>>>>>>>>                  3. *lexical equivalent*: It is said of
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     those terms in different languages that
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     usually point to the same entity, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     one of the verbalizes the original term
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     by using target language words. E.g.,
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     “Ecole Normal” (FR) “(French) Normal
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     School” (EN). The concept of Normal
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     School does not exist in England, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     English people have verbalized it in
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     English.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Does it make sense?
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 We will also work on this and update the
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 wiki with examples/code accordingly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Have a nice weekend!
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Elena.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 El 07/02/2014 16:59, Philipp Cimiano escribió:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Dear all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 very nice, it seems that the telco was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 very productive without me, I should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 consider staying away now and then ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 I will work this into the current document
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 next week.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Best regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Philipp.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Am 07.02.14 16:29, schrieb John P. McCrae:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 So today at the telco we had myself,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Paul, Francesca, Elena and Lupe.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 We discussed based on Philipp's proposal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     I propose we go with the following
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     four variants + translation:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     1) FormVariant: Relation between two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     forms of one lexical entry
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     2) LexicalVariant: Relation between
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     two lexical entries that are related
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     by some well-defined string-operation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     (e.g. creating an initialism like in FAO)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     3) TerminlogicalVariant: Relation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     between two lexical senses (with the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     same reference) of two lexical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     entries; the lexical entries are thus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     uniquely determined; the senses might
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     have different contextual and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     pragmatic conditions (register, etc.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     4) SemanticVariant: As 3) Relation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     between senses with references that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     are ontologically related, either by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     subsumption or are children of a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     common superconcept (see my paella
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     and risotto example)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     5) Translation: As with 3), but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     involving entries from different
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     languages.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     So we would have one relation between
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     forms (FormVariant), one relation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     between lexical entries
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     (LexicalVariant), and three relations
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     at the sense level
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     (TerminologicalVariant,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     SemanticVariant and Translation).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     We might think about introducing a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     SenseRelation as a superclass of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     TerminologicalVariant,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     SemanticVariant and Translation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     Hypernym and Hyponym would also be a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     SenseRelation in this sense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 The discussion was as follows:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 *
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 *
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 *Form variants*: We discussed the need to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 distinguish form (inflectional) variants
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 as opposed to lexical (entry) variants.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 The primary reason for this was to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 separate variation between LexicalEntrys
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 and Form (as defined in the core). It was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 felt that the distinction between form
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 and lexical variant was too fine-grained
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 and that the modelling of this as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 variants is probably not appropriate. For
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 example, if we consider
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 :Cat a LexicalEntry
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 ontolex:canonicalForm :Cat#CanonicalForm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 (writtenRep "cat"@eng),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 ontolex:otherForm :Cat#PluralForm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                  (writtenRep "cats"@eng) .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Then modelling the relationship as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 :Cat#CanonicalForm ontolex:plural
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 :Cat#PluralForm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 is inferior to (especially in the case
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 that there are large number of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 inflections of a single lemma, such as an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Italian verb)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 :Cat#CanonicalForm ontolex:number
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 ontolex:singular .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 :Cat#PluralForm ontolex:number
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 ontolex:plural .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 For these reasons, it was preferred not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 to introduce form variants
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 *Term(inological)Variants/SemanticVariant: *We
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 agreed with the idea of introducing a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 superclass SenseRelation subsuming both
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 TermVariants and SemanticVariants as follows
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   * TermVariants have the same reference
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     (e.g., diachronic, diatopic etc.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   * SemanticVariants have different
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     references (e.g., antonymy,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     "similar", (maybe?) hypernymy)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 It was also suggested to shorten the name
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 TerminologicalVariant to TermVariant
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 *Translation: *We discussed the idea of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 distinguishing between (Lemma/Term)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 *Translation* and *Culturally-Equivalent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Translation *by saying *Translation * is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 a *TermVariant * and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 *Culturally-Equivalent Translation* is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 *Semantic Variant.*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 It was suggested that we consider
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 introducing a class
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 *MultilingualVariant** subsuming
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 *Translation *and*C.E.T. *and subsumed by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 *SenseRelation, *for relations between
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 languages, this would also include
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 broader/narrower cross-lingual alignments
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 as used in Interlingual Indexes for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 WordNets etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 * or cross-lingual variant or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 inter-lingual variant
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 I attach a diagram to show the proposal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 John
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 -- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Phone:+49 521 106 12249  <tel:%2B49%20521%20106%2012249>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Fax:+49 521 106 12412  <tel:%2B49%20521%20106%2012412>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Mail:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de  <mailto:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Forschungsbau Intelligente Systeme (FBIIS)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Raum 2.307
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Universität Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Inspiration 1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 33619 Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 -- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Elena Montiel-Ponsoda
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Ontology Engineering Group (OEG)
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Departamento de Inteligencia Artificial
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Escuela Técnica Superior de Ingenieros Informáticos
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Campus de Montegancedo s/n
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Boadilla del Monte-28660 Madrid, España
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 www.oeg-upm.net  <http://www.oeg-upm.net/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Tel.(+34) 91 336 36 70  <tel:%28%2B34%29%2091%20336%2036%2070>
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Fax(+34) 91 352 48 19  <tel:%28%2B34%29%2091%20352%2048%2019>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 -- 
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Phone:+49 521 106 12249  <tel:%2B49%20521%20106%2012249>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Fax:+49 521 106 12412  <tel:%2B49%20521%20106%2012412>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Mail:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de  <mailto:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Forschungsbau Intelligente Systeme (FBIIS)
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Raum 2.307
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Universität Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Inspiration 1
>>>>>>>>>>>                 33619 Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                 -- 
>>>>>>>>>>                 Elena Montiel-Ponsoda
>>>>>>>>>>                 Ontology Engineering Group (OEG)
>>>>>>>>>>                 Departamento de Inteligencia Artificial
>>>>>>>>>>                 Escuela Técnica Superior de Ingenieros Informáticos
>>>>>>>>>>                 Campus de Montegancedo s/n
>>>>>>>>>>                 Boadilla del Monte-28660 Madrid, España
>>>>>>>>>>                 www.oeg-upm.net  <http://www.oeg-upm.net/>
>>>>>>>>>>                 Tel.(+34) 91 336 36 70  <tel:%28%2B34%29%2091%20336%2036%2070>
>>>>>>>>>>                 Fax(+34) 91 352 48 19  <tel:%28%2B34%29%2091%20352%2048%2019>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                 -- 
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                 Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                 Phone:+49 521 106 12249  <tel:%2B49%20521%20106%2012249>
>>>>>>>>>                 Fax:+49 521 106 12412  <tel:%2B49%20521%20106%2012412>
>>>>>>>>>                 Mail:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de  <mailto:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                 Forschungsbau Intelligente Systeme (FBIIS)
>>>>>>>>>                 Raum 2.307
>>>>>>>>>                 Universität Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>>                 Inspiration 1
>>>>>>>>>                 33619 Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 -- 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 Phone:+49 521 106 12249  <tel:%2B49%20521%20106%2012249>
>>>>>>>>                 Fax:+49 521 106 12412  <tel:%2B49%20521%20106%2012412>
>>>>>>>>                 Mail:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de  <mailto:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 Forschungsbau Intelligente Systeme (FBIIS)
>>>>>>>>                 Raum 2.307
>>>>>>>>                 Universität Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>                 Inspiration 1
>>>>>>>>                 33619 Bielefeld
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                 --
>>>>>>>                 Gilles Sérasset
>>>>>>>                 GETALP-LIG           BP 53 - F-38041 Grenoble
>>>>>>>                 Cedex 9
>>>>>>>                 Phone: +33 4 76 51 43 80
>>>>>>>                 <tel:%2B33%204%2076%2051%2043%2080>           
>>>>>>>                        Fax:   +33 4 76 63 56 86
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 -- 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 Phone:+49 521 106 12249  <tel:%2B49%20521%20106%2012249>
>>>>>>                 Fax:+49 521 106 12412  <tel:%2B49%20521%20106%2012412>
>>>>>>                 Mail:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de  <mailto:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 Forschungsbau Intelligente Systeme (FBIIS)
>>>>>>                 Raum 2.307
>>>>>>                 Universität Bielefeld
>>>>>>                 Inspiration 1
>>>>>>                 33619 Bielefeld
>>>>>
>>>>>                 --
>>>>>                 Gilles Sérasset
>>>>>                 GETALP-LIG           BP 53 - F-38041 Grenoble Cedex 9
>>>>>                 Phone: +33 4 76 51 43 80
>>>>>                 <tel:%2B33%204%2076%2051%2043%2080>              
>>>>>                     Fax: +33 4 76 63 56 86
>>>>>                 <tel:%2B33%C2%A04%2076%2063%2056%2086>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 -- 
>>>>
>>>>                 Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano
>>>>
>>>>                 Phone:+49 521 106 12249  <tel:%2B49%20521%20106%2012249>
>>>>                 Fax:+49 521 106 12412  <tel:%2B49%20521%20106%2012412>
>>>>                 Mail:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de  <mailto:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de>
>>>>
>>>>                 Forschungsbau Intelligente Systeme (FBIIS)
>>>>                 Raum 2.307
>>>>                 Universität Bielefeld
>>>>                 Inspiration 1
>>>>                 33619 Bielefeld
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>             -- 
>>>
>>>             Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano
>>>
>>>             Phone:+49 521 106 12249  <tel:%2B49%20521%20106%2012249>
>>>             Fax:+49 521 106 12412  <tel:%2B49%20521%20106%2012412>
>>>             Mail:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de  <mailto:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de>
>>>
>>>             Forschungsbau Intelligente Systeme (FBIIS)
>>>             Raum 2.307
>>>             Universität Bielefeld
>>>             Inspiration 1
>>>             33619 Bielefeld
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>         -- 
>>
>>         Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano
>>
>>         Phone:+49 521 106 12249  <tel:%2B49%20521%20106%2012249>
>>         Fax:+49 521 106 12412  <tel:%2B49%20521%20106%2012412>
>>         Mail:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de  <mailto:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de>
>>
>>         Forschungsbau Intelligente Systeme (FBIIS)
>>         Raum 2.307
>>         Universität Bielefeld
>>         Inspiration 1
>>         33619 Bielefeld
>>
>>
>
>
>     -- 
>
>     Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano
>
>     Phone:+49 521 106 12249  <tel:%2B49%20521%20106%2012249>
>     Fax:+49 521 106 12412  <tel:%2B49%20521%20106%2012412>
>     Mail:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de  <mailto:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de>
>
>     Forschungsbau Intelligente Systeme (FBIIS)
>     Raum 2.307
>     Universität Bielefeld
>     Inspiration 1
>     33619 Bielefeld
>
>


-- 

Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano

Phone: +49 521 106 12249
Fax: +49 521 106 12412
Mail: cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de

Forschungsbau Intelligente Systeme (FBIIS)
Raum 2.307
Universität Bielefeld
Inspiration 1
33619 Bielefeld

Received on Friday, 21 February 2014 19:27:14 UTC