- From: Philipp Cimiano <cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de>
- Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2014 08:08:51 +0100
- To: Jorge Gracia <jgracia@fi.upm.es>
- CC: "public-ontolex@w3.org" <public-ontolex@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <54912C03.1000409@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de>
Jorge, all, thanks for the answer, see below between lines... I guess we are also converging here. Cheers, Philipp. Am 12.12.14 14:24, schrieb Jorge Gracia: > Hi Philipp, > > Sorry for answering this so late. Between the lines... > > 2014-12-05 15:28 GMT+01:00 Philipp Cimiano > <cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de > <mailto:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de>>: > >> Jorge, all, >> >> On your translation provenance example: >> >> 1) I would propose to remove the translation set in the example >> as it is confusing I think. The example is IMHO supposed to >> illustrate the usage of PROV-O to provide meta-information about >> a translation. >> > Yes, it would't harm if remove it. This was to illustrate that > provenance can be specified at different levels (in the case of > TranslationSet with dc:source) OK, I think I will create two examples then... > >> 2) Actually, it is still true that the property >> "translationConfidence" is proprietary. I think we should include >> it into the vartrans module indeed. >> > Yes we can do that. Or make it something more generic, because for > instance a confidence degree could be associated to other things: > imagine that we are applying an automatic POS tagger to determine POS > of lexical entries, maybe the same mechanism could be applied to say > that the generated information is associated to a confidence degree. Yes, it makes sense to add a general property "confidence" and possibly a subProperty translationConfidence, not sure about the second one though. > >> 3) Why do you use prov:qualified Generation instead of simply >> prov:GeneratedBy ??? >> > Qualified Generation allows us to reify the relation and attach a > confidence degree to it. I do not see how to do that with > wasGeneratedBy only (I am not an expert in PROV-O though, ;-) ). > Maybe defining "confidence" as an annotation property? > OK, I see. I was having in mind to attach the confidence score to the Activity directly. Speaking informally: The activity itself would have a confidence in the product (the translation) it has generated. Implicitly of course it is the confidence of the agent of the activity that has some confidence, but I guess attaching the confidence to the Activity would be a good approximation I think. > Best regards, > Jorge > >> Regards, >> >> Philipp. >> >> >> Am 14.11.14 16:19, schrieb Jorge Gracia: >>> Hi Philipp, all, >>> >>> > OK, so what is the state of play of the provenance example? >>> >>> I added an example near the bottom of the "translation section" >>> at >>> https://www.w3.org/community/ontolex/wiki/Final_Model_Specification#Translation >>> that we have not discussed yet. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Jorge >>> >>> 2014-11-14 15:55 GMT+01:00 Philipp Cimiano >>> <cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de >>> <mailto:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de>>: >>> >>> OK, so what is the state of play of the provenance example? >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Philipp. >>> >>> Am 14.11.14 11:50, schrieb Jorge Gracia: >>>> Hi Philipp, >>>> >>>> I'm happy to see that there was an agreement on vartrans. I >>>> volunteer to document it in the wiki and github if nobody >>>> else did it yet, although not in the next few days I am >>>> afraid (I am overwhelmed with other tasks!) >>>> >>>> For me it is fine to discuss the provenance example by >>>> email. I am still not fully happy with so I would >>>> appreciate any comment >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Jorge >>>> >>>> 2014-11-14 11:33 GMT+01:00 Philipp Cimiano >>>> <cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de >>>> <mailto:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de>>: >>>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> there has not been much activity on the mailinglist >>>> this week. Further, I have no agenda points for today. >>>> I propose that we cancel today's telco. >>>> >>>> I will work on the specification in the next weeks and >>>> hope that we can have a final specification until end >>>> of the year. >>>> >>>> Jorge: can we discuss your provenance example via email? >>>> >>>> Have a good weekend, >>>> >>>> Philipp. >>>> >>>> Am 09.11.14 21:17, schrieb Philipp Cimiano: >>>>> Jorge, ontolex members, >>>>> >>>>> last Friday we had an very intense telecoference, see >>>>> minutes here: >>>>> >>>>> As important milestones, we decided the following: >>>>> >>>>> 1) accept proposal 3B of Jorge mentioned in the email >>>>> below. With this we more or less conclude the work on >>>>> the vartrans module, for which we decided to keep the >>>>> name (vartrans). We still need to finish the >>>>> discussion on representing provenance of translations >>>>> however (Jorge: are you going to be available for the >>>>> telco next week) >>>>> >>>>> 2) We discussed again the examples for the metadata >>>>> module provided by Armando and Manuel and agreed on >>>>> them essentially. We only discussed few things: >>>>> whether a proxy resource for a dataset is needed (it >>>>> is needed to add metadata essentially) and whether we >>>>> need both a ontolex:Lexicon (as lexicon object) and a >>>>> lime:Lexicon (as dataset). >>>>> >>>>> 3) We decided to have both integer and percentage >>>>> properties for the coverage in the lime module. >>>>> >>>>> I think these are important milestones that conclude >>>>> some of the open discussion we have been having in the >>>>> last months. >>>>> >>>>> Talk to you all on the 14th to finalize other aspects >>>>> of the model. >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> >>>>> Philipp. >>>>> >>>>> Am 07.11.14 14:19, schrieb Jorge Gracia: >>>>>> Dear all, >>>>>> >>>>>> After some internal discussions we are proposing >>>>>> (Elena, Lupe, and myself) the following to >>>>>> accommodate the new notion of a generic >>>>>> lexico-semantic relation in Lemon-Ontolex: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1) To add a generic "Lexico-semantic Relation" to >>>>>> the CORE module (the name can be another one of >>>>>> course) for reifying relations whenever it is >>>>>> necessary, and having the "source" and "target" >>>>>> properties that we have discussed in the previous >>>>>> telcos. It is specialised in "Lexical Relation" >>>>>> whenever the relation is at the level of forms or >>>>>> lexical entries, and "Sense Relation" whenever the >>>>>> relation is between senses. The motivation of placing >>>>>> these in the core is to support ANY module that wants >>>>>> to reuse the same reification mechanisms. >>>>>> >>>>>> Imágenes integradas 1 >>>>>> >>>>>> 2) Based on those classes, any type of specific >>>>>> relation could be supported. Now it is our choice >>>>>> whether to include them as a lemon module or as >>>>>> something external to the model. For instance, new >>>>>> relations could be defined: "Morphological >>>>>> derivation" (e.g., happy -> unhappy) at the lexical >>>>>> level or "Antonymy" at the sense level, for instance. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Imágenes integradas 2 >>>>>> >>>>>> 3-A) Vartrans module: the Variant relation is >>>>>> proposed as a specialisation of "Lexico-semantic >>>>>> Relation". Roughly speaking, we understand "Variant" >>>>>> as a relation between two entities (lexical entries, >>>>>> forms, senses, ...) that are interchangeable under >>>>>> certain conditions, still keeping similar meanings >>>>>> (e.g., "finger" -> "hand" are not variants, but >>>>>> "color" -> "colour" or "bank"@en -> "banco"@es are >>>>>> variants). There are several subclasses of Variant: >>>>>> "Lexical Variant" and "Translatable" are variants >>>>>> that are lexical relations as well, and >>>>>> "Terminological Variant" and "Translation" are >>>>>> variants that are also sense relations. See the >>>>>> figure for some examples... >>>>>> >>>>>> Imágenes integradas 3 >>>>>> >>>>>> 3-B) However one could say that any possible variant >>>>>> is covered already by the above referred subclasses >>>>>> "Lexical Variant", "Translation", "Terminological >>>>>> Variant", ... So another scheme without the "Variant" >>>>>> type is also possible, although loosing the notion of >>>>>> a relation between entities that are exchangeable >>>>>> under certain circumstances (which is given by >>>>>> "Variant"). >>>>>> >>>>>> Imágenes integradas 4 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I hope you find this reflections useful. Sorry we are >>>>>> not available today for discussing it, but any >>>>>> feedback or comment by email will be appreciated, and >>>>>> we can continue the discussion in the following telco. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>> >>>>>> Jorge, Elena, Lupe >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Jorge Gracia, PhD >>>>>> Ontology Engineering Group >>>>>> Artificial Intelligence Department >>>>>> Universidad Politécnica de Madrid >>>>>> http://jogracia.url.ph/web/ >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> -- >>>>> Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano >>>>> AG Semantic Computing >>>>> Exzellenzcluster für Cognitive Interaction Technology (CITEC) >>>>> Universität Bielefeld >>>>> >>>>> Tel:+49 521 106 12249 <tel:%2B49%20521%20106%2012249> >>>>> Fax:+49 521 106 6560 <tel:%2B49%20521%20106%206560> >>>>> Mail:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de <mailto:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de> >>>>> >>>>> Office CITEC-2.307 >>>>> Universitätsstr. 21-25 >>>>> 33615 Bielefeld, NRW >>>>> Germany >>>> >>>> -- >>>> -- >>>> Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano >>>> AG Semantic Computing >>>> Exzellenzcluster für Cognitive Interaction Technology (CITEC) >>>> Universität Bielefeld >>>> >>>> Tel:+49 521 106 12249 <tel:%2B49%20521%20106%2012249> >>>> Fax:+49 521 106 6560 <tel:%2B49%20521%20106%206560> >>>> Mail:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de <mailto:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de> >>>> >>>> Office CITEC-2.307 >>>> Universitätsstr. 21-25 >>>> 33615 Bielefeld, NRW >>>> Germany >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jorge Gracia, PhD >>>> Ontology Engineering Group >>>> Artificial Intelligence Department >>>> Universidad Politécnica de Madrid >>>> http://jogracia.url.ph/web/ >>> >>> -- >>> -- >>> Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano >>> AG Semantic Computing >>> Exzellenzcluster für Cognitive Interaction Technology (CITEC) >>> Universität Bielefeld >>> >>> Tel:+49 521 106 12249 <tel:%2B49%20521%20106%2012249> >>> Fax:+49 521 106 6560 <tel:%2B49%20521%20106%206560> >>> Mail:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de <mailto:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de> >>> >>> Office CITEC-2.307 >>> Universitätsstr. 21-25 >>> 33615 Bielefeld, NRW >>> Germany >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Jorge Gracia, PhD >>> Ontology Engineering Group >>> Artificial Intelligence Department >>> Universidad Politécnica de Madrid >>> http://jogracia.url.ph/web/ >> >> -- >> -- >> Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano >> AG Semantic Computing >> Exzellenzcluster für Cognitive Interaction Technology (CITEC) >> Universität Bielefeld >> >> Tel:+49 521 106 12249 <tel:%2B49%20521%20106%2012249> >> Fax:+49 521 106 6560 <tel:%2B49%20521%20106%206560> >> Mail:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de <mailto:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de> >> >> Office CITEC-2.307 >> Universitätsstr. 21-25 >> 33615 Bielefeld, NRW >> Germany > > -- > -- > Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano > AG Semantic Computing > Exzellenzcluster für Cognitive Interaction Technology (CITEC) > Universität Bielefeld > > Tel:+49 521 106 12249 <tel:%2B49%20521%20106%2012249> > Fax:+49 521 106 6560 <tel:%2B49%20521%20106%206560> > Mail:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de <mailto:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de> > > Office CITEC-2.307 > Universitätsstr. 21-25 > 33615 Bielefeld, NRW > Germany > > > > -- > Jorge Gracia, PhD > Ontology Engineering Group > Artificial Intelligence Department > Universidad Politécnica de Madrid > http://jogracia.url.ph/web/ -- -- Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano AG Semantic Computing Exzellenzcluster für Cognitive Interaction Technology (CITEC) Universität Bielefeld Tel: +49 521 106 12249 Fax: +49 521 106 6560 Mail: cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de Office CITEC-2.307 Universitätsstr. 21-25 33615 Bielefeld, NRW Germany
Received on Wednesday, 17 December 2014 07:09:26 UTC