- From: Armando Stellato <stellato@info.uniroma2.it>
- Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2013 23:34:36 +0200
- To: "'Aldo Gangemi'" <aldo.gangemi@cnr.it>
- Cc: "'QUATTRI, Francesca [11901993r]'" <francesca.quattri@connect.polyu.hk>, "'Philipp Cimiano'" <cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de>, "'John McCrae'" <jmccrae@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de>, <public-ontolex@w3.org>
Hi Aldo. I was thinking about that too (in terms of "is it the case to think of some axiom for bringing a lexicon glosses automatically to the ontology?"), though actually I'm not sure if I understood the exact property you are speaking about. Currently, we already have a property for linking senses directly to ontology entities (ontolex:reference). So maybe you were considering having a direct link from glosses of the senses to the ontology elements ontolex:referenced by these senses? ...and in case, having it automatically inferred through an axiom? > -----Original Message----- > From: Aldo Gangemi [mailto:aldo.gangemi@cnr.it] > Sent: Friday, July 12, 2013 8:27 PM > To: Armando Stellato > Cc: Aldo Gangemi; 'QUATTRI, Francesca [11901993r]'; 'Philipp Cimiano'; 'John > McCrae'; public-ontolex@w3.org > Subject: Re: telco tomorrow, 15:00 CET, random talk > > Hi all, sorry for today. > This is interesting; actually sometimes I pointed out that glosses are actually > senses, though expressed verbosely and not with clear cut identifiers. > > Anyway, when representing the structure of a traditional dictionary, we need to > create identifiers for different senses of a lemma, and at that point, the gloss > can be attached to sense identifiers through the gloss datatype property. > > Once we have that, gloss analysis can be conducted, and a formal definition > can be extracted that makes it explicit the ontology attached to the sense. > > In such extensions (e.g. Mihalcea's or Hovy's gloss formalizations, or Těpalo- > FRED RDFization of Wikipedia definitions), a special relation could link the > sense (with its gloss) to the ontology formalizing it. Should such a relation > should be considered in OntoLex, or left to possible extensions? > > Ciao > Aldo > > On Jul 12, 2013, at 4:51:21 PM , "Armando Stellato" > <stellato@info.uniroma2.it> wrote: > > > Hi Francesca, > > > > in replying to Guido - who was advocating the possibility of linking > > glosses to different entries (LexicalSenses, or LexicalConcepts) - I > > said: "you are right Guido, as there are lexical resources which have > > no notion of LexicalConcept, think about Dictionaries (either > > bilingual or monolingual) which just have entries, and sense-separated > > descriptions, which may contain morphological variations, synonyms > > (translations for bilingual dictionaries), glosses etc..". Thus in > > Dictionaries, there are just lexical entries, and their descriptions > > which are sense-separated, but there is no gluing object for senses. > > There is even no guarantee that two senses of two lexical entries, > > which ideally collapse into a same meaning (LexicalConcept), have the > > same gloss, because these are handled separately in the descriptions > > of the two lexical entries (though, hopefully, the two glosses will > > provide very similar descriptions :-) ). For these resources, IF we > > want to represent them, there is no choice but allowing for glosses to be > attached to LexicalSenses. > > > > My suggestion was to use the metadata, to understand which kind of > > lexical resource we are dealing with, and thus know in advance where > > the glosses (if > > any) are attached to. > > > > Best, > > > > Armando > > > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: QUATTRI, Francesca [11901993r] > >> [mailto:francesca.quattri@connect.polyu.hk] > >> Sent: Friday, July 12, 2013 3:47 PM > >> To: Philipp Cimiano > >> Cc: John McCrae; Aldo Gangemi; public-ontolex@w3.org > >> Subject: RE: telco tomorrow, 15:00 CET, random talk > >> > >> To keep up with tonight's discussion: > >> > >> I agree with Guido's note on different meanings for a same lexical entry: > > This > >> occurs in one language and of course particularly across languages: I > >> have > > no > >> practical reference for Guido's example "dog-Hund", but for instance > >> the Chinese entry of 'dog' should include, apart from "domesticated > >> animal", "edible animal", since dogs are commonly eaten. > >> > >> Citing Armando: "Sometimes senses are not factorized on the WN > >> glosses" - > > if I > >> got it right, can you give us an example? > >> > >> F. > >> ________________________________________ > >> From: QUATTRI, Francesca [11901993r] > >> Sent: Friday, July 12, 2013 9:29 PM > >> To: Philipp Cimiano > >> Cc: John McCrae; Aldo Gangemi; public-ontolex@w3.org > >> Subject: RE: telco tomorrow, 15:00 CET, random talk > >> > >> Hi and sorry for the bad Skype connection. > >> Here it comes again. > >> F. > >> ________________________________________ > >> From: QUATTRI, Francesca [11901993r] > >> Sent: Friday, July 12, 2013 9:06 PM > >> To: Philipp Cimiano > >> Cc: John McCrae; Aldo Gangemi > >> Subject: RE: telco tomorrow, 15:00 CET, random talk > >> > >> Was playing around with the model. Thanks Philip for the example. > >> Take the following as a random talk about the many implications or > > extensions > >> that can derive from it. > >> > >> Let's assume sb is not looking for the French puddle, but starts from > > 'dog' as > >> point of discussion and tries to derive analogies across languages > >> from > > its > >> inflections. > >> > >> Let's assume we look for a mapping of 'dogged' (stubbornly > >> relentless, > >> persistent): > >> we find similar concepts in other languages (perse2ve2rance, > >> obstination > > -fr; > >> perseverante, ostinato -it; hartnaeckig, verbissen- de > interestingly: > > verbissen > >> from Biss - bite; hartnaeckig / probably from Nacken - back, lit. > >> hard > > back > > >> similar expression in It: "avere le spalle forti" /lit. to have > >> strong > > shoulders) > >> > >> Let's go for "to be dogged" (e.g. to be dogged by an illness) We have > >> the concept of 'persecution' in at least four languages: > >> *ser maltratado por/ser castigado por/ser perseguidado por (Sp) > >> *verfolgt > > von > >> (Ge) (to be persecuted) *zhe2mo (persecution, torment)(Ch); wei3sui2 (lit. > > "tail > >> behind") versus the normal gou3 ("dog") *perseguitato, maltrattato > >> (It) > >> > >> Let's look for a collocation with the word, e.g. "to dog around": > >> Here we > > have at > >> least two meanings. > >> 1.to work hard 2. to cheat on sb (dogging, slang: a woman picking up > >> men > > at > >> random) > >> > >> if we go for adj. plus word (e.g. top dog), we also get another new > > meaning (in > >> this case: the leader or chief of a group). Interestingly, in German > >> we > > don't > >> have the dog but the deer or stag to denote the concept (Platzhirsch). > >> > >> > >> ________________________________________ > >> From: Philipp Cimiano [cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de] > >> Sent: Friday, July 12, 2013 3:36 AM > >> To: public-ontolex@w3.org > >> Subject: Re: telco tomorrow, 15:00 CET > >> > >> Sorry, I forgot the diagram with the example. > >> > >> Apologies, > >> > >> Philipp. > >> > >> Am 11.07.13 21:33, schrieb Philipp Cimiano: > >>> Dear all, > >>> > >>> John sent around a link to the current version of the model early > >>> this > >>> week: > >>> > >>> http://www.w3.org/community/ontolex/wiki/OntoLex_Core_Model > >>> > >>> I attach an illustrative example to this mail that shows how the > >>> model would put into action. Hope this helps. > >>> > >>> Tomorrow we will have our regular telco at 15:00 (CET). > >>> > >>> I will ask everyone on the telco to raise final issues with the model. > >>> If there are no issues, we will then start the voting procedure > >>> involving the whole list. > >>> > >>> Best regards, > >>> > >>> Philipp. > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano > >> Semantic Computing Group > >> Excellence Cluster - Cognitive Interaction Technology (CITEC) > >> University > > of > >> Bielefeld > >> > >> Phone: +49 521 106 12249 > >> Fax: +49 521 106 12412 > >> Mail: cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de > >> > >> Room H-127 > >> Morgenbreede 39 > >> 33615 Bielefeld > >> > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------ > > ---------------------- > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------ > > --- > >> Disclaimer: > >> > >> This message (including any attachments) contains confidential > >> information intended for a specific individual and purpose. If you > >> are not the > > intended > >> recipient, you should delete this message and notify the sender and > >> the University immediately. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution > >> of this > > message, > >> or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited and > >> may be unlawful. > >> > >> The University specifically denies any responsibility for the > >> accuracy or > > quality > >> of information obtained through University E-mail Facilities. Any > >> views > > and > >> opinions expressed are only those of the author(s) and do not > >> necessarily represent those of the University and the University > >> accepts no liability whatsoever for any losses or damages incurred or > >> caused to any party as a result of the use of such information. > >> > > > >
Received on Friday, 12 July 2013 21:35:10 UTC