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[Minutes and editing sec1-2] MLW-LT calls 2013-05-29

From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 10:14:31 +0200
Message-ID: <51A70A67.1070003@w3.org>
To: "public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org" <public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org>
Hi all,

minutes of yesterday group call are at
http://www.w3.org/2013/05/29-mlw-lt-minutes.html
the editing call minutes are at
http://www.w3.org/2013/05/29-mlw-lt-minutes.html#item07

see for both below as text. The section 1-2 HTML is now at
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20-for-editing-sec1-sec2.html
for the editors: the ODD is at
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20-for-editing-sec1-sec2.odd
Please CVS update the whole directory. For generating the sec1-sec-2 
HTML, please use the ant "generate-sec1-2" target. for the regular 
editors copy use "generate-ed-copy".

At
http://www.w3.org/2013/05/29-mlw-lt-minutes.html#item07
we discussed what Christian and I will edit relying on the structure for 
sec1-2 at
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013May/0243.html

*Important:* a few examples and paragraphs in the existing sec1-2 have 
been created for resoliving "first last call" issues, see e.g.
https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/100
and the example
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20-for-editing-sec1-sec2.html#EX-motivation-its-2
during editing sec1-2 we must not remove or change these.

Next editing call will be today 4 p.m. UTC
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20130530T16
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Dial_in_info_for_regular_call
We will also use IRC #mlw-lt. Dave will dial in - others, don't worry if 
you don't have time.

Best,

Felix


    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                                MLW-LT WG

29 May 2013

    [2]Agenda

       [2] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013May/0259.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2013/05/29-mlw-lt-irc

Attendees for main MLW-LT call (not editing call)

    Present
           Ankit, Des, Karl, felix, olaf-michael, philr, sebastian,
           leroy, Yves, dF, Jirka, tadej, pedro, david, yves, dave,
           Pedro

    Regrets
           christian, jörg

    Chair
           felix

    Scribe
           philr

    Attendance for editing call is given at [4]editing call

Contents

      * [5]Topics
          1. [6]]init presentation
          2. [7]Testing current state
          3. [8]several topics
          4. [9]Section 1-2 edits from Christian
          5. [10]aob
          6. [11]editing call
      * [12]Summary of Action Items
      __________________________________________________________

]init[ presentation

    sebastian: Implmentation of ITS in Libre Office Writer
    ... plan to finish in July
    ... public agency customer, files translated by agencies
    ... translate, locale, term and loc Note categories

    <scribe> ...new toolbar buttons for data categories

    sebastian: in middle of implementation schedule, gui challenges
    ... extension can be installed, 3/4 categories implemented,
    markup can be attributed and notes added
    ... markup can be visualised
    ... load and save working
    ...Challenges: WYSIWYG editor - have to make sure markup is
    never compromised by editing activities
    ... identification of markup extents
    ... no big challenges with specification - was quite clear to
    read for implementation engineers
    ... complexities in implementation because of use of various
    api's
    ... had to use bookmarks
    ... other challenges with file locking mechanisms and xml
    serialisation
    ... file round trip
odt->bookmark-odt->itsodt->xliff->itsodt->bookmark-odt
    ... next steps: finalise gui issues and import/export, present
    in Dublin and publish in July

    daveL: are you using existing best practice for how to
    visualise markup?

    sebastian: avoid well known formatting used for product
    functionality

    daveL: does highlighting indicate markup existence or markup
    content?

    sebastain: it just indicates markup existence

    daveL: is there a facility to filter which tags are displayed?

    sebastian: No, other than button state

    daveL: data categories have different use caes and so perhaps
    need to be filtered within a CAT tool environment

    sebastian: other questions?

    Pedro: can metadata visualisation be expanded or collapsed for
    readability?

    sebastian: No, as not possible in Libre Office

    Pedro: search and replace works in metadata?

    sebastian: No, because metadata is stored within
    implementation's own memory

    Pedro: can edit metadata in Libra Office and Xliff?

    sebastian: if you load Xliff then ITS is read in as ODT
    Bookmark

    Pedro: if I select text which includes metadata and add
    attribute, can I go back and edit?

    sebastian: yes
    ... you can edit existing metadata

    fsasaki: segmentation would be very useful to have for
    translation agencies

    end of presentation

Testing current state

    <fsasaki>
    [13]http://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://raw.github.com/finnle
    /ITS-2.0-Testsuite/master/its2.0/testSuiteDashboard.html

      [13] 
http://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://raw.github.com/finnle/ITS-2.0-Testsuite/master/its2.0/testSuiteDashboard.html

    We still have ITS Parameters to implement - plan to do so in
    parallel with NIF

    dF: not confident to complete tests by June 11

    <fsasaki> ACTION: felix to look into dashboard update [recorded
    in
    [14]http://www.w3.org/2013/05/29-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-534 - Look into dashboard update [on
    Felix Sasaki - due 2013-06-05].

several topics

    <fsasaki>
    [15]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
    lt/2013May/0259.html

      [15] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013May/0259.html

    There is NIF test files available, VistaTEC and TCD will
    implement

    Dublin Showcase soon, re-use presentations as much as possible

    daveL: Please register for Showcase
    ... please also publicise

Section 1-2 edits from Christian

    fsasaki: If anyone can spare time to edit please do so

    daveL: we should make best effort to include those sections
    ... primer document is still the same effort
    ... think we should keep going with best effort

    Pedro: suggest - each person takes 1 hour and writes a small
    paragraph under each index item so at least there's some
    content for the editors to choose from

    <fsasaki>
    [16]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Inp
    ut_to_section_one_and_two_by_all

      [16] 
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Input_to_section_one_and_two_by_all

    fsasaki: great idea, please use wiki page above

    daveL: that would work for data gathering

    dF: Pedro's idea good

    <omstefanov> Somewhat off topic of today's meeting: I've added
    a reference to my talk at JIAMCATT 2013 on 16 May, as item 20
    in
    [17]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Pre
    sentations_archive and uploaded my presentation.

      [17] 
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Presentations_archive

    12/6 fsasaki to provide edit 17/6 first f2f look at edit, see
    [18]action-535

      [18] 
https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/535

aob

    daveL: any questions on the ITS->Xliff mapping?

    sebastian: we are not there yet

    <fsasaki> xliff 1.2 mapping overview
    [19]http://www.w3.org/International/its/wiki/XLIFF_1.2_Mapping

      [19] http://www.w3.org/International/its/wiki/XLIFF_1.2_Mapping

    sebastian: will do in June and contribute back information

    omstefanov: 17/18 in Dublin?

    fsasaki: yes

    omstefanov: I posted a link to my presentation - have credited
    a few working group members - have uploaded to wiki

    fsasaki: MLW-lT meeting ended. below are editing call minutes.

editing call

    Participants: Dave, David, Felix, Yves, Pedro, Christian

    <fsasaki> meeting: MLW-LT editing call. going through
    [20][ACTION-377] mail.

      [20] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013May/0243.html

    <fsasaki> 1.4.4 Specific HTML support > 1.4.1 Specific HTML
    support

    <fsasaki> 1.4.5 Mappings: one paragraph per subsection

    <chriLi> RDF/NIF

    <fsasaki> rename nif mapping section to

    <fsasaki> "ITS and XLIFF" and "ITS and RDF/NIF"

    <fsasaki> felix to write nif section (= one paragraph)

    <fsasaki> dave to write, david to review XLIFF paragraph

    <fsasaki> "1.4.6 Unicode normalization" - felix will send ODD
    paragraph to christian

    <fsasaki> "1.4.1 Additional data categories"

    <fsasaki> take text content from req document about why they
    were added

    <fsasaki> pedro to send motivation text via mail to felix

    <fsasaki> "1.4.2 Modified data categories": dropped ruby,
    modified diretionality

    <fsasaki> modified translate and elements within text for html

    <fsasaki> modifications: dropped ruby

    <fsasaki> terminology datacat change

    <fsasaki> "translate and elements within text for html": say
    that it was modifeid for translate only

    <fsasaki> same for selectors

    <fsasaki> wrt to HTML changes: refer to HTML explanatory
    section

    <fsasaki> "5.3.3 CSS Selectors" > input to 1.4.3.2 Modified
    selectors

    <fsasaki> "5.3.1 Choosing Query Language" > input to 1.4.3.1
    Query language on rules element

    <fsasaki> "1.4.3.3 Parameters in selectors" gets input from
    5.3.5 Variables in selectors

    <fsasaki> "1.4.3.4 Traceability (toolsRef)"

    <fsasaki> gets input from "5.8 ITS Tools Annotation"

    <fsasaki> "1.4.6 Unicode normalization"

    <fsasaki> content of "1.8 ITS 2.0 and Unicode Normalization"

    <fsasaki> "1.4.7 Extended implementation hints"

    <fsasaki> "how to do it with RDFa, ..." - make people aware of
    major approaches that are supported etc.

    <fsasaki>
    [21]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
    lt/2013May/0252.html

      [21] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013May/0252.html

    <fsasaki>
    [22]http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-mlw-metadata-us-impl-20130307/

      [22] http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-mlw-metadata-us-impl-20130307/

    <fsasaki> christian to look up in the spec

    <Yves_> Side note: "1.4.3.4 Traceability (toolsRef)" should be
    "1.4.3.4 Traceability (annotatorsRef)"

    <fsasaki> "1.2 General motivation for going beyond ITS 1.0"

    <Yves_> Sorry: I have to leave for another meeting. Bye.

    <fsasaki>
    [23]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/i
    ts20/its20.odd

      [23] 
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.odd

    <fsasaki>
    [24]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/i
    ts20/its20.odd-version-for-sec-1-2.odd

      [24] 
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.odd-version-for-sec-1-2.odd

    <fsasaki> "1.2 General motivation for going beyond ITS 1.0"

    <fsasaki> - cover more usage scenarios

    <fsasaki> - cover enhancement ideas in ITS IG

    <fsasaki> - other communities to address other content types
    than XML, e.g. HTML

    <fsasaki> - new mechanisms were needed, e.g. toolsRef etc.

    <fsasaki> - refer to three gaps we had in project proposal
    (felix will provide)

    <fsasaki> - multilinguality in web is evolving, we need to
    respond to that

    <fsasaki> the web is changing, we are changing too

    <fsasaki> christian will spell this out in the odd

    <fsasaki> "1.3 Broader Usage Scenarios"

    <daveL> section 1.3 broader usage scenario

    <daveL> dave: asks do we keep the user profiles

    <daveL> christian: thought we could express all this through
    use cases

    <daveL> dF: useful to keep the actors, but more condensed and
    perhaps integrated into the use case

    <fsasaki> ODD for editing sec1-2 is now here:
    [25]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/i
    ts20/its20-for-editing-sec1-sec2.odd

      [25] 
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20-for-editing-sec1-sec2.odd

    <Pedro> Usage scenarios:
    [26]http://www.w3.org/International/its/wiki/Use_cases_-_high_l
    evel_summary

      [26] 
http://www.w3.org/International/its/wiki/Use_cases_-_high_level_summary

    <Pedro> More about usage scenarios/users:
    [27]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/i
    ts20/its20.html#users-usage

      [27] 
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#users-usage

    <daveL> ideas for clusters:

    <daveL> content producers

    <daveL> vendors of tools

    <daveL> MT (and postediting?)

    <daveL> terminology and text analytics

    <daveL> QA and provenance

    <Pedro> Clusters : 1. Content creation; 2. Content translation
    3. Content publishing 4. Content leverage 5. Content analytics
    6. Content learning/search processes 7. Content data link

    <fsasaki>
    [28]http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-mlw-metadata-us-impl-20130307/

      [28] http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-mlw-metadata-us-impl-20130307/

    <fsasaki> group "2.1 Simple Machine Translation" to 2.18 under
    the 7 clusters?

    <fsasaki> felix to try grouping by clusters in sec. "1.3
    Broader Usage Scenarios", rather "1.3 Usage Scenarios"

    <fsasaki> now looking at sec. 2

    <fsasaki>
    [29]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/i
    ts20/its20.html#basic-concepts

      [29] 
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#basic-concepts

    <fsasaki> dropping sec. 2, having in sec. 1 one example that
    explains everything

    <fsasaki> [30]http://doodle.com/qnu3nhm7rncww2k2#table

      [30] http://doodle.com/qnu3nhm7rncww2k2#table

    <fsasaki>
    [31]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/i
    ts20/its20-for-editing-sec1-sec2.odd

      [31] 
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20-for-editing-sec1-sec2.odd

    <fsasaki>
    [32]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/i
    ts20/its20-for-editing-sec1-sec2.html

      [32] 
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20-for-editing-sec1-sec2.html

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: felix to look into dashboard update [recorded in
    [33]http://www.w3.org/2013/05/29-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]

    [End of minutes]
      __________________________________________________________


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