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Re: Response to your LC Comment -2393 on Media Ontology spec

From: Thierry Michel <tmichel@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 10:04:34 +0100 (CET)
Message-ID: <39a9435dcbb9a1d56595cb4e6cc1ab50.squirrel@webmail.sophia.w3.org>
To: "Silvia Pfeiffer" <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>
Cc: tmichel@w3.org, "public-media-annotation@w3.org" <public-media-annotation@w3.org>

The F2F meeting is tomorow and friday. Followaing that we should soon
release our second Last Call.

Thierry

> Oh... I was and am really busy.
> When is your meeting?
> Silvia.
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 9:43 PM, Thierry MICHEL <tmichel@w3.org> wrote:
>> Silvia,
>>
>> Did you have the time to fill the WebM multimedia
>> container format mapping table?
>>
>> I would like to include it the spec for our F2F.
>>
>> Thanks for your help,
>> Thierry
>>
>>
>>
>> OK, will do, but not before the weekend.
>> Thanks,
>> Silvia.
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 7:08 PM, Thierry MICHEL <tmichel@w3.org> wrote:
>>> Silvia,
>>>
>>> You have kindly offered to provide information for the WebM multimedia
>>> container format mapping table.
>>>
>>> As I have no feed back from James, could you please send us this
>>> information.
>>> The WebM template is available at
>>>
>>> http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-1.0/mediaont-1.0.html#iddiv4x2x27165
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Thierry.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 15/10/2010 07:41, Silvia Pfeiffer a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> Speex is a codec and not a metadata format. Ogg Speex is already
>>>> covered
>>>> by
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-1.0/mediaont-1.0.html#iddiv4x2x16776,
>>>> just as that covers Ogg Vorbis and Ogg Theora.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Silvia.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 4:36 PM, James
>>>> Salsman<jsalsman@talknicer.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Silvia,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thierry specifically told me that Speex wasn't approved because it
>>>>> was
>>>>> not a metadata format.
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you saying that Speex is already included in the ontology under
>>>>> ogg?
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> James Salsman
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Silvia Pfeiffer
>>>>> <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> James,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nobody says that media formats do not contain metadata. But you are
>>>>>> referring to codec data here and not to media fromats. Codec data
>>>>>> never
>>>>>> stands on its own and can thus not expose metadata. It always
>>>>>> exposes
>>>>>> it
>>>>>
>>>>> as
>>>>>>
>>>>>> part of a container. Thus, Ogg Speex already is covered. And you
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> regard metadata for VP8 in the context of WebM.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thus, when Thierry asks for a spec for WebM metadata, that will
>>>>>> cover
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> VP8 metadata.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Silvia.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 3:07 PM, James
>>>>>> Salsman<jsalsman@talknicer.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Thierry,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I most certainly do not cancel my objection.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please send me the names and email addresses of all persons who
>>>>>>> purport to claim that media format definitions do not contain
>>>>>>> metadata.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have asked the VP8 and Speex media authorities to complete your
>>>>>>> ontology forms.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>> James Salsman
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 4:15 AM, Thierry MICHEL<tmichel@w3.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> James,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We need to wrap up this issue in order to allow the MAWG to move
>>>>>
>>>>> forward
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> Media Ontology spec.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Could you please respond to this email and say:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1- that you cancel your formal objection.
>>>>>>>> 2- that you agree to the MAWG proposal to include a
>>>>>>>> WebM multimedia container format mapping table
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> as you had referred to
>>>>>>>> http://www.webmproject.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 3- Do you plan to send us the WebM multimedia container format
>>>>>>>> mapping
>>>>>>>> table, whith the appropriate info ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-1.0/mediaont-1.0.html#iddiv4x2x27165
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thierry
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Le 12/10/2010 08:54, Thierry MICHEL a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Silvia,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is exactly what I have told James, in my earlier email in
>>>>>
>>>>> response
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> to his last call comment.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2010Sep/0225.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> extract:
>>>>>>>>> "To focus on your request to include VP8 and speex in our
>>>>>>>>> Ontology,
>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> mapping tables are intended for multimedia *metadata formats*.
>>>>>>>>> - VP8 is an open video compression format (codec).
>>>>>>>>> - Speex is a free audio codec for Free Speech.
>>>>>>>>> These are not *metadata formats*, and therefore not meant to be
>>>>>
>>>>> listed
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> in our mapping tables".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As James raised an objection if this 2 formats were not included,
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> asked him to provide the 2 mapping tables for Speex and VP8, and
>>>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>>> what he could provide ...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And, as we had concluded in the MAWG that on the container
>>>>>>>>> carries
>>>>>>>>> metadata, I have in a couple of emails asked James to provide a
>>>>>
>>>>> mapping
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> table for the media container formats WebM.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> an pointed to the template to use
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/drafts/ontology10/CR/mapping_table-php.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am still waiting for James to provide this information if he
>>>>>>>>> wants
>>>>>
>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> see it in the spec. A place holder for this containet is already
>>>>>>>>> created
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-1.0/mediaont-1.0.html#iddiv4x2x27165
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thierry.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Le 12/10/2010 03:43, Silvia Pfeiffer a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> James, Thierry,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Speex and VP8 are codecs and don't by themselves have accessible
>>>>>>>>>> metadata.
>>>>>>>>>> They, however, are not distributed as codec data, but rather
>>>>>>>>>> inside
>>>>>>>>>> media
>>>>>>>>>> containers.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> When we talk about Speex in files, it comes in an Ogg container
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-1.0/mediaont-1.0.html#iddiv4x2x16776should
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> satisfy your need for a mapping table.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> When we talk about VP8 in files, it comes in a WebM container
>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>> Vorbis.
>>>>>>>>>> Somebody needs to fill in
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-1.0/mediaont-1.0.html#iddiv4x2x27165
>>>>> !
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If nobody is doing it, let me know and I'll make the time to dig
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> out.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>> Silvia.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 3:54 AM, Thierry MICHEL<tmichel@w3.org>
>>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Dear James,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In your latest email to the MAWG response to your comment, you
>>>>>>>>>>> seem
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> disagree with the MAWG proposal.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2010Sep/0245.html
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "I don't agree with the statement that speex or VP8 are not
>>>>>
>>>>> metadata
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> formats. They are audio and audiovisual media formats which
>>>>>>>>>>> contain
>>>>>>>>>>> both metadata and data in their specifications.
>>>>>>>>>>> This disagreement can be resolved if speex and VP8 are included
>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> media ontology".
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The group is currently discussing your objection. Speex is an
>>>>>>>>>>> audio
>>>>>>>>>>> format, and the Ontology spec is mainly incorporating images
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> video
>>>>>>>>>>> metadata formats.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> To move forward, could you please send the MAWG the 2 mapping
>>>>>
>>>>> tables
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> Speex and VP8.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Please use as template the following tables with the exact name
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> property being mapped to, like ma:identifier, ma:title, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>> and the same columns: Relation, How to do the mapping,
>>>>>>>>>>> Datatype,
>>>>>>>>>>> Required
>>>>>>>>>>> vs Optional,XPath
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> templates:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-1.0/mediaont-1.0.html#metadata-mapping-table
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Could you please send these ASAP as we are about to release a
>>>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>>>> publication of the Media Ontology spec
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>>>> Thierry Michel
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>


-- 
Thierry Michel
W3C
Received on Wednesday, 3 November 2010 09:05:03 UTC

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