- From: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
- Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 18:42:49 -0400
- To: public-lod@w3.org
- Message-ID: <51BF90E9.1090501@openlinksw.com>
On 6/17/13 6:21 PM, Luca Matteis wrote: > This still doesn't answer my initial question "How do you produce > Linked Data without RDF?". What makes you conclude that <http://kingsley.idehen.net/DAV/home/kidehen/Public/DropBox/Public/Linked%20Data%20Resources/linked-data-rdf-test2.ttl> is a document bearing RDF content? How have you arrived at that conclusion? > At this point I'm going with other members of the community stating > that you're simply avoiding the evidence. The evidence shows that > indeed you need RDF to produce Linked Data. So RDF is strictly needed > in order to produce Linked Data. Cognitive Dissonance is not going to get you out of this one. What makes <http://kingsley.idehen.net/DAV/home/kidehen/Public/DropBox/Public/Linked%20Data%20Resources/linked-data-rdf-test2.ttl> an RDF document, specifically. I am sure you know that RDF did not invent the Triple! Neither did it invent the References as Identifiers. My document has: 1. HTTP URIs 2. HTTP URIs with and without fragment identifiers 3. 3-tuple (triple) statements. Nothing above is unique to RDF. Not a single thing !! My document is 100% compatible with any version of TimBL's Linked Data memes. Kingsley > > > On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 11:58 PM, Melvin Carvalho > <melvincarvalho@gmail.com <mailto:melvincarvalho@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > On 17 June 2013 23:26, David Wood <david@3roundstones.com > <mailto:david@3roundstones.com>> wrote: > > Nicely done, Kingsley! That is an excellent exploration of > the boundaries. > > Yes, it is RDF (of course), but crappy RDF since the > predicates are hardly likely to be reused by others or even > mapped via owl:sameAs. > > Yes, it is Linked Data, but crappy Linked Data because it > doesn't link out to anything. The bogus Content-Type is > something we have (almost) all learned to live with. > > Crappy != broken, but it is still crappy ;-) > > > +1 > > > Regards, > Dave > -- > http://about.me/david_wood > > > > On Jun 17, 2013, at 14:17, Kingsley Idehen > <kidehen@openlinksw.com <mailto:kidehen@openlinksw.com>> wrote: > >> On 6/17/13 1:35 PM, Luca Matteis wrote: >>> It's number 3 because it's RDF (Turtle) and it's using URIs >>> to describe things. And links to other data. >> Let's put aside the Turtle assumption debate since it (like >> Media Type) doesn't have any concrete bearing on this exercise. >> >> How about the document denoted by this URI/URL: >> <http://kingsley.idehen.net/DAV/home/kidehen/Public/DropBox/Public/Linked%20Data%20Resources/linked-data-rdf-test2.ttl> >> <http://kingsley.idehen.net/DAV/home/kidehen/Public/DropBox/Public/Linked%20Data%20Resources/linked-data-rdf-test2.ttl> >> >> >> Is that an RDF document? If not, is it a Linked Data >> document? Or is it neither? >> >> >> Kingsley >>> >>> Can you make your point more clearly rather than answering >>> my question with other questions? >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 7:27 PM, Kingsley Idehen >>> <kidehen@openlinksw.com <mailto:kidehen@openlinksw.com>> wrote: >>> >>> On 6/17/13 1:09 PM, Luca Matteis wrote: >>>> What makes it RDF is that you can take the contents of >>>> this URL and stick it in any popular RDF parser and it >>>> will parse it for you. >>>> >>>> It's still bad quality Linked Data because it's missing >>>> mime-types. Anyway back to my initial question "How do >>>> you produce Linked Data without RDF?" >>> >>> To cleanup this experiment, here's a URI/URL that >>> denotes a version of the file (note: there where some >>> errors in the initial document e.g. "." where I meant >>> to have ";") on my server: >>> >>> <http://kingsley.idehen.net/DAV/home/kidehen/Public/DropBox/Public/Linked%20Data%20Resources/linked-data-rdf-test.ttl> >>> <http://kingsley.idehen.net/DAV/home/kidehen/Public/DropBox/Public/Linked%20Data%20Resources/linked-data-rdf-test.ttl> >>> . >>> >>> You can also just copy and past the content to your >>> document to yours. >>> >>> Back to the question and exercise, what's the defining >>> characteristic that makes either of our documents >>> (denoted by their respective URI/URLs) RDF documents, >>> specifically? Here are some document type options to >>> select from: >>> >>> 1. Structured Data >>> 2. Structured Data adhering to Linked Data principles >>> 3. RDF based Structured Data adhering to Linked Data >>> principles. >>> >>> >>> Note, I am not expecting Media Types to play any role in >>> this experiment. >>> >>> Kingsley >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 6:59 PM, Kingsley Idehen >>>> <kidehen@openlinksw.com >>>> <mailto:kidehen@openlinksw.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> On 6/17/13 12:51 PM, Luca Matteis wrote: >>>>> Done: http://codepad.org/7REcSynR/raw.txt >>>>> >>>>> That's still RDF so I don't get your point. >>>> >>>> Really? How? >>>> >>>> curl -I http://codepad.org/7REcSynR/raw.txt >>>> >>>> HTTP/1.1 200 OK >>>> Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 16:57:10 GMT >>>> Server: Apache >>>> Pragma: no-cache >>>> Cache-Control: no-cache >>>> Content-Disposition: attachment >>>> Content-Length: 427 >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >>>> >>>> >>>> What makes it RDF? >>>> >>>> Related: >>>> >>>> 1. >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entity–attribute–value_model >>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entity%E2%80%93attribute%E2%80%93value_model> >>>> -- EAV >>>> 2. http://bit.ly/YTdz3N - Peter Chen's circa. 1976 >>>> dissertation that covers unified views of data >>>> (note: a simple example of these concepts that even >>>> predate the World Wide Web). >>>> >>>> Kingsley >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 6:31 PM, Kingsley Idehen >>>>> <kidehen@openlinksw.com >>>>> <mailto:kidehen@openlinksw.com>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On 6/17/13 11:02 AM, Luca Matteis wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Kingsley >>>>>> Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com >>>>>> <mailto:kidehen@openlinksw.com>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Linked Data is also something you can >>>>>> produce, without any knowledge of RDF. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> What do you mean "without any knowledge of >>>>>> RDF"? How do you produce Linked Data without >>>>>> RDF? Please give us an example before making >>>>>> statements on behalf of the community. >>>>> If you recall (earlier today) I presented you >>>>> with a simple exercise which would answer the >>>>> question you've posed above, demonstrably. >>>>> >>>>> Here's that I posted: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Webby Structured Data: >>>>> >>>>> Simply copy and paste the following to a Web >>>>> accessible location (URL) and then share the >>>>> URL via a response to this mail. If you can't >>>>> then simply let me know and I'll do that for you. >>>>> >>>>> ## Structured Data Representation using Turtle >>>>> Notation ## >>>>> >>>>> <> >>>>> a <#Document> . >>>>> <#mentions> "Linked Data" , "Linked Data", >>>>> "Semantic Web", "Inference Reasoning", "Web". >>>>> <#comment> "A mailing list post about Linked >>>>> Data and RDF". >>>>> <#seeAlso> >>>>> <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Linked_data> >>>>> <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Linked_data>, >>>>> <http://dbpedia.org/resource/RDF> >>>>> <http://dbpedia.org/resource/RDF>, >>>>> <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Semantic_Web> >>>>> <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Semantic_Web>, >>>>> <http://dbpedia.org/resource/World_Wide_Web> >>>>> <http://dbpedia.org/resource/World_Wide_Web> >>>>> >>>>> ## End ## >>>>> >>>>> What is the above to you? >>>>> >>>>> 1. Webby Structured Data -- constructable >>>>> using basic knowledge of Entity Relationship >>>>> Models e.g. EAV (Entity-Attribute-Value based >>>>> structured data representation) >>>>> 2. RDF based Structured Data -- i.e., >>>>> structured data endowed with machine- and >>>>> human-comprehensible entity relationship >>>>> semantics as defined by RDF (a framework). >>>>> >>>>> Related: >>>>> >>>>> 1. >>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entity–attribute–value_model >>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entity%96attribute%96value_model> >>>>> -- EAV >>>>> 2. http://bit.ly/YTdz3N - Peter Chen's circa. >>>>> 1976 dissertation that covers unified views of >>>>> data (note: a simple example of these concepts >>>>> that even predate the World Wide Web). >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> >>>>> Kingsley Idehen >>>>> Founder & CEO >>>>> OpenLink Software >>>>> Company Web:http://www.openlinksw.com <http://www.openlinksw.com/> >>>>> Personal Weblog:http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen <http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/%7Ekidehen> >>>>> Twitter/Identi.ca <http://Identi.ca> handle: @kidehen >>>>> Google+ Profile:https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about >>>>> LinkedIn Profile:http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Kingsley Idehen >>>> Founder & CEO >>>> OpenLink Software >>>> Company Web:http://www.openlinksw.com <http://www.openlinksw.com/> >>>> Personal Weblog:http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen <http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/%7Ekidehen> >>>> Twitter/Identi.ca <http://Identi.ca> handle: @kidehen >>>> Google+ Profile:https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about >>>> LinkedIn Profile:http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Kingsley Idehen >>> Founder & CEO >>> OpenLink Software >>> Company Web:http://www.openlinksw.com <http://www.openlinksw.com/> >>> Personal Weblog:http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen <http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/%7Ekidehen> >>> Twitter/Identi.ca <http://Identi.ca> handle: @kidehen >>> Google+ Profile:https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about >>> LinkedIn Profile:http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> >> Regards, >> >> Kingsley Idehen >> Founder & CEO >> OpenLink Software >> Company Web:http://www.openlinksw.com <http://www.openlinksw.com/> >> Personal Weblog:http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen <http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/%7Ekidehen> >> Twitter/Identi.ca <http://Identi.ca> handle: @kidehen >> Google+ Profile:https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about >> LinkedIn Profile:http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen >> >> >> >> > > > -- Regards, Kingsley Idehen Founder & CEO OpenLink Software Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
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Received on Monday, 17 June 2013 22:43:15 UTC