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RE: Two Final Threads - Diphthongs / Final glyph checks

From: Greg Eck <greck@postone.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 03:02:18 +0000
To: Badral S. <badral@bolorsoft.com>, "public-i18n-mongolian@w3.org" <public-i18n-mongolian@w3.org>
Message-ID: <SN1PR10MB09435DD4883CF4A232320EC3AF1A0@SN1PR10MB0943.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
Hi Badral,

Let’s look at the issue in two parts:

1.)    Verify that the encoding will handle various means of spelling the medial Y

2.)    Decide how to spell the anomalies

I look at our job within this forum mainly to cover point number 1.
If we want to have discussion on point number two and if it really needs to be covered in order to decide on #1, then of course we must talk about point number 2.
Otherwise discussion about point #2 is an aside (albeit important aside, but still an aside).
Our job remains #1.

Our premise is that the NP column below is correct.
We just want to consider adding the default glyph at the M+FVS2 slot so that we can spell the

-          Medial N default with OT rulings only

-          Medial N default with over-ride possibility

-          Medial N variant with OT rulings only

-          Medial N variant with over-ride possibility

[cid:image006.png@01D12377.DE031780]

Then we arrive at an over-ride like this … ?
[cid:image001.png@01D12376.6A888520]

Badral, do you want to spell out the logic for the condition?

Greg

>>>>>
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2015 2:51 AM
Subject: Re: Two Final Threads - Diphthongs / Final glyph checks

I will try to explain this problem. There exist an overlap between some regular words and some words with diphthong, if we use yi for diphthongs. The list created by Siqin is exactly these regular words.
Saiqan is just one example word, which contains a diphthong. If we use yi for diphthong, it seems sayiqan and has to be displayed with two straight shin (shilbe) like[cid:image002.png@01D12376.6A888520]. Here the first shin is YA consonant which is second medial form of YA (1836). But we should not use FVSs for diphthongs because the frequency is enormous, thus it's managed by OT rules. The second shin is first medial form of I (1822).
Besides, there exist a regular word sayiqan, which means "recently". In this case YI must be displayed with one turned up shin and one straight shin like [cid:image003.png@01D12376.6A888520] . Here first shin is YA consonant which is first medial form of YA (1836). The second one is first medial form of I (1822).
Now, the problem is how should we encode this type of words. We have already the OT rules which displays YI as two straight shin for encoding SAYIQAN, which means "nice". Now we have to invalidate our rule, to display sayiqan with meaning "recently". We have possibility to encode such regular words with SAY(FVS2 or FVS3)IQAN. I already suggested that we can use FVS2 generally for every overriding. It's exactly same as the overriding at NAI(FVS2)MA.

Badral


On 06.11.2015 10:18, siqin wrote:
Hi Greg,
To make it very clear, you are saying that

[mailbox:///D:/siqin/Thunderbird/Profiles/b1ym75zh.default/Mail/Local%20Folders/w3?number=64727281&header=quotebody&part=1.2&filename=image001.png](SAIQAN) is           <U+1830><U+1820><U+1822><U+182C><U+1820><U+1828>
and
[mailbox:///D:/siqin/Thunderbird/Profiles/b1ym75zh.default/Mail/Local%20Folders/w3?number=64727281&header=quotebody&part=1.3&filename=image002.png] (SAYIQAN) is       <U+1830><U+1820><U+1836><U+1822><U+182C><U+1820><U+1828>?

AND there should be no FVS involved?
Yes, and if want to use ayi,eyi,oyi,uyi,oeyi,ueyi,
[mailbox:///D:/siqin/Thunderbird/Profiles/b1ym75zh.default/Mail/Local%20Folders/w3?number=64727281&header=quotebody&part=1.2&filename=image001.png](SAY'IQAN) is           <U+1830><U+1820><U+1836><U+180B><U+1822><U+182C><U+1820><U+1828>


The words with Y which not silbe is here

    middle_yi.pdf
    middle_yi.docx
    middle_yi.xps

SiqinBilige.
On 2015/11/06 1:06, Greg Eck wrote:
Hi Jirimutu,

To make it very clear, you are saying that

[mailbox:///D:/siqin/Thunderbird/Profiles/b1ym75zh.default/Mail/Local%20Folders/w3?number=64727281&header=quotebody&part=1.2&filename=image001.png](SAIQAN) is           <U+1830><U+1820><U+1822><U+182C><U+1820><U+1828>
and
[mailbox:///D:/siqin/Thunderbird/Profiles/b1ym75zh.default/Mail/Local%20Folders/w3?number=64727281&header=quotebody&part=1.3&filename=image002.png] (SAYIQAN) is       <U+1830><U+1820><U+1836><U+1822><U+182C><U+1820><U+1828>?

AND there should be no FVS involved?

Does someone have time to pull up Siqin’s list in text form again? It should be both in text and .xps format. I believe Baiti has resolved most of the diphthongs without use of the FVS, but if we had some mutually accessible test data, we could all check our font against the same data.

Greg


>>>>>

image001.png
(image/png attachment: image001.png)

image002.png
(image/png attachment: image002.png)

image003.png
(image/png attachment: image003.png)

image004.png
(image/png attachment: image004.png)

image005.png
(image/png attachment: image005.png)

image006.png
(image/png attachment: image006.png)

Received on Friday, 20 November 2015 03:02:52 UTC

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