RE: Overide #2 (NA and GA)

Hi Greg and Richard,

Maybe my hurried answers in this morning from hotel is making you two confused. 
Because the font we are using is not same. Actually, the NA in Altanodu should be un-dotted NA, even it is followed by Vowel O.
We are using "NA followed by abnormal <O, FVS1>" as the condition to keep the medial NA as un-dotted.

For the medial NA case, let me explain more in details.
As the Greg's Orverride rule, 

OverRide #2 
U+1828 N ←First Medial Form (un-dotted medial NA)
If   (Initial_Vowel+N+Mongolian_Vowel) OR  (Medial_Vowel+N+Mongolian_Vowel) 
 then N ← Second Medial Form (dotted medial NA)
If (N+FVS2) 
      /*This is OverRide #2 over-riding normal grammatical rulings special case of compound names*/  
then N ← Third Medial Form (un-dotted medial NA)

But we are handling the compound names as bellow now. 
Because as we know all of the override case is the un-dotted medial NA follows the vowel, 
but the vowel will be written as the abnormal forms with one tooth.
U+1828 N ←First Medial Form (un-dotted medial NA)
If   (Initial_Vowel+N+Mongolian_Vowel+ is not FVS1-3) OR  (Medial_Vowel+N+Mongolian_Vowel+ is not FVS1-3) 
 then N ← Second Medial Form (dotted medial NA)

It is means that we saw the <medial Vowel, FVS1-3> as the abnormal vowel, the medial NA will remain the un-dotted form. 

As my point of view, it is ok to prepare this <NA, FVS2> override mapping rule for medial NA.
But we consider all of these kind of characters which have contextual toggles. 
Maybe you say it is only the medial (I, NA, GA), final GA exist this problem.

I can raise medial (OE, UE, QA, DA, YA, WA, ) additionally, even if there are no proper word example, 
maybe we need to write one mistaken word to show the mistake.
Do we need to prepare this kind of extra mapping encoding ? 
Our solution is that we do not need this kind of extra encoding rule for these requirement.
We only use NIRUGU or ZWJ to clear the contextual rules and show the default form.

....NIRUGU + NA + NIRUGU ...... or .....ZWJ + NA + ZWJ will always be the un-dotted form.
....NIRUGU + GA + NIRUGU ...... or .....ZWJ + GA + ZWJ will always be the un-dotted form.

This is only one suggestion. We can accept if you list it on the rule anyway.
It is not the big problem.

Thanks and Regards,

Almas Inc. 
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-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Wordingham [] 
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2015 8:31 PM
Subject: Re: Overide #2 (NA and GA)

On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 01:53:56 +0000
Greg Eck <> wrote:

> OK, thank you.
> Compound proper nouns is our common finding also.
> Greg
> From: []
> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2015 8:29 AM
> To: Greg Eck <>;
> Subject: RE: Overide #2

If I understand the argument correctly, it is being said that medial <NA, FVS2> is needed to encode dotlessness.  While I accept that dotlessness does need to be encoded, I don't accept ᠠᠯᠲᠠᠨᠤ᠋ᠳ᠋ᠤ ‍(Altanodu) as a valid example.

I believe a relevant, though otherwise less important, example, is the undotted traditional spelling of ᠠᠨᠠᠷ anar in row 6 of the examples on pp5-6 in TR170 and in Table 9 of GB/T 26226-2010. The table has me confused, though.  It implies that in medial <NA, FVS1>, FVS1 toggles the dotting off, though in Table A of the standard, removing the dotting from medial NA seems to be the job of FVS3.  TR170 does not have the equivalent of Table A of the Chinese standard.

Table B of GB/T 26226-2010 does not contain the medial 'separate form'
of NA.  Conceivably, it has been reanalysed as NIRUGU + medial NA.

My objection to 'Altanodu' is that NA should not, without a variation selector, be dotted before a vowel with an extra tooth.  <O, FVS1> marks the start of a syllable as well as recording the vowel, and therefore the previous NA belongs to the previous syllable, and is therefore dotless.

What happens with GA at the end of the first element of a compound when the second element begins with a vowel?


Received on Monday, 31 August 2015 12:53:21 UTC