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Re: role="subheading" or role="subtitle" to replace hgroup

From: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 10:13:22 +0100
Message-ID: <BANLkTinUG+srUd6FOzZ-e6tdKRW8r51FGw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Masataka Yakura <myakura.web@gmail.com>
Cc: HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>
Hi Masataka,

given that the reason <hgroup> exists is to mask subheadings from the
outline algorithm that hasn't been implemented in any browser yet(to my
knowledge)  and that its inclusion is disputed, its accessibility
semantics/mapping are also unclear and under a cloud.

I think the best thing to do is remove it so it is not used until its fate
is decided.

Lars Gunther provides a good summation of where we are at in regards to
hgroup [1]

I for one think that hgroup is something worth discussing sooner rather than
later, as I believe there is a good chance that  further discussion and
review will lead to a substantive change. Having hgroup as is,  in the HTML5
spec, if indeed it is removed or modified, does no one any favours
especially developers who may use the element.

Also the html5 editor recently stated [3] :

"I don't feel particularly strongly attached to having the
<hgroup> element in the HTML5 spec. If you really want me to remove it, please
reopen the bug and I'll take care of it."

So i have re-opened the bug and requested hgroup's removal.

bugs [2] relating to hgroup

[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Jan/0256.html
[2] 11731 <http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11731> ,
11828 <http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11828>
[3] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11828#c2


On 8 April 2011 10:00, Masataka Yakura <myakura.web@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 6:37 PM, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > what are the arguments for/against adding a role value to indicate when a
> > h1-h6 is acting as a subheading?
> >
> > <h1>heading</h1>
> > <h2 role=subheading> subtitle </h2>
> >
> > - removes need for hgroup
> Does that suggest removing hgroup from HTML5 spec or keeping it but
> discourage the use of it?
> Given that: major browsers now recognize hgroup in parsing and styling
> level [1][2][3][4][5]; some people have already start using it; and
> there are lots of books on HTML5 markup talking about using hgroup
> along with sectioning elements, so I don't really want hgroup to be
> removed from the spec...
> I don't have a strong opinion about adding a role value, though.
> [1]
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-US/ie/ff468705.aspx#_HTML5_Semantic_Elements
> [2] http://www.apple.com/safari/features.html#technologies
> [3] http://www.opera.com/docs/specs/presto27/html5/
> [4] https://developer.mozilla.org/en/HTML/Element/hgroup
> [5]
> http://chrome.blogspot.com/2010/10/bringing-another-chrome-release-to-you.html
> Regards,
> --
> Masataka Yakura
> <myakura.web@gmail.com>

Received on Friday, 8 April 2011 09:14:09 UTC

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