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Re: Implementor feedback on new elements in HTML5

From: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 19:53:13 +0200
Message-ID: <4A9D5F89.5020101@xn--mlform-iua.no>
To: Jonas Sicking <jonas@sicking.cc>
CC: Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>, HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>
Jonas Sicking On 09-09-01 07.55:

> On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 2:29 AM, Maciej Stachowiak<mjs@apple.com> wrote:
>> (Additional comments are personal feedback only.)
>> On Aug 31, 2009, at 10:14 PM, Jonas Sicking wrote:
>>> Great feedback Maciej,
>>> At mozilla we have yet to do a detailed review of the new elements, so
>>> I can't give as detailed feedback at the time. However it feels like I
>>> personally generally agree. Some comments and cases I didn't agree
>>> with below:
>>>> - <dialog> element
>>>>  This essentially gives the same behavior as <dl> but with appropriate
>>>> semantics for logs of conversations. It seems useful and easy to
>>>> implement.
>>> Useful for what? I don't yet understand what anyone needs this element
>>> for.
>> One example would be markup for a chat log. I'm personally not sure it adds
>> a lot of value for this case, but I'm not sure if there is an existing good
>> way to mark up logs of conversations, and it seems like a fairly common use
>> case.
> What use is marking up a chat log? What value does it add?
>> I don't feel strongly about this, but it doesn't seem like
>> implementing it would be a problem.
> Indeed, implementing <dialog> in a browser is trivial. A feature that
> isn't used, or mostly used wrongly, still adds a cost (spec bloat,
> tutorial bloat, author confusion, name collisions with future features
> etc), my concern is purely that.

FWIW, I have always found it "dumb" that I have to change <ol> to 
<ul> in order to get a un-numerated list - and vice-versa. The 
semantical difference between <ol> and <ul> is also much to 
fine-grained (well, it is an obvious difference, but one must 
twist one's head to get it) to warrant a separate element for 
both. CSS have just underlined the lack of usefulness of having 
both an unordered and ordered list format.  I would have found it 
much better if the semantics just followed the the list style - 
and in fact, both in Opera 9.x, Firefox and IE8, if you write <ul 
type="A">, you get an ordered list ...

All this to day that I agree with the view that we don't need 
<dialog>. I would much rather have had <dl dialog> or <dl 
type="dialog">. But if the choice is between <dialog> and a bare 
naked <dl>, then I am less certain ...

Does ARIA have anything to add? Does ARIA have something like the 
dialog element? (Sorry if the question has already been asked.)
leif halvard silli
Received on Tuesday, 1 September 2009 17:53:54 UTC

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