- From: John Foliot <jfoliot@stanford.edu>
- Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 11:46:31 -0700 (PDT)
- To: "'Charles McCathieNevile'" <chaals@opera.com>, <public-html@w3.org>
Charles McCathieNevile wrote: > > I would like to propose that the longdesc attribute from HTML 4 be > retained in HTML 5 as an allowed attribute on images. I would like to signal support of this proposal as well. While the PFWG *did* note that aria-describedby might likely supplant the longdesc attribute, the usage & implementation of technique is sufficiently different that both should be made available to content creators. I will point to the following web page (http://www.cssquirrel.com/comic/?comic=41) as an example of a caring author 'bending' aria-describedby to actually deliver what longdesc does natively. The source-code is: <img id="imgComic" src="/images/comic/cs041.png" alt="Comic" aria-describedby="ariaLink" longdesc="http://www.cssquirrel.com/comicscripts/script41.htm"/> <a id="ariaLink" href="http://www.cssquirrel.com/comicscripts/script41.htm" title="Link to a transcript of this comic">Link to a transcript of this comic</a>However, the author *does not* want the "Link to a transcript..." link visible on the page (due to legitimate design considerations), and thus uses CSS to remove the link from the screen - what I would argue is a 'work-around' (aka 'hack'). Continued support for longdesc would remove the need for content authors 'working around' the design issue that aria-describedby introduces. JF > This implies the > following changes to the spec: > > at http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/text-level-semantics.html#the-img- > element > img would also become interactive content with longdesc present. The > longdesc attribute would be listed as an attribute for the element. > > The attribute is described already in HTML 4 [1] and the description can > be re-used, although it should be made clear that the URI to which > longdesc refers can be a relative reference to some part of the same > page > (in order to be explicit about which content is associated with the > image), or a different page. The example, which references an image but > appears to provide useless alt text should not be copied from HTML 4. > > Other sections that may change: > 4.8.2.1.1, 4.8.2.1.2, 4.8.2.1.3 should all mention that a longdesc *may* > be provided to provide a detailed *description* of the image, e.g. to > help > a person who cannot see it to find it from a description. > > 4.8.2.1.5 should mention it as a way to make the association between an > image and the relevant text explicit. > > 4.8.2.1.6 should mention it as the preferred way to point to a > description > of the image if this is desired, rather than mis-using the alt attribute > for this purpose. > > 4.8.2.1.9 should mention that where an image is a key part of the > content, > it should have sufficient text in the alt attribute to replace the > image, > and using the longdesc attribute for critical information is a mistake. > However, it can be used for additional information if desired. > > RATIONALE: > This has been a controversial topic. It is clear that longdesc is > relevant > only to a fraction of images on the Web, and that it is only provided in > a > few of the cases where it is actually relevant. It is also clearly > subject > to bogus values to a large extent (perhaps the majority of the time). > And > its use is relatively limited, even by those who might be expected to > appreciate it. > > However, it has been implemented multiple times successfully. The fact > that there is bad data associated might account for low overall usage, > but > has relatively little impact on implementations, which can readily > choose > to simply ignore values which are not URIs, or even to present the value > to the user, and relatively little impact on the user, who can still > benefit from a *good* usage. > > This would require conformance checking to accept the attribute as > valid, > and would imply maintaining the existing requirement on Authoring > Tools[2] > to allow the author to use this functionality. It would maintain > conformance of HTML-4 tools and content, rather than the current > expected > change leaving them non-conforming. > > [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/objects.html#adef-longdesc- > IMG > [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/ATAG-10/ makes several relevant requiremnts > > cheers > > Chaals > > -- > Charles McCathieNevile Opera Software, Standards Group > je parle français -- hablo español -- jeg lærer norsk > http://my.opera.com/chaals Try Opera: http://www.opera.com
Received on Monday, 26 October 2009 18:47:10 UTC