W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html@w3.org > March 2009

Re: summary="" in HTML5 ISSUE-32

From: Leif Halvard Silli <lhs@malform.no>
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 00:48:10 +0100
Message-ID: <49AB1EBA.2090407@malform.no>
To: Steve Axthelm <steveax@pobox.com>
CC: Robert J Burns <rob@robburns.com>, Simon Pieters <simonp@opera.com>, Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>, HTMLWG <public-html@w3.org>
Steve Axthelm 2009-03-01 23.16:
> On 2009-02-27 Robert J Burns <rob@robburns.com> wrote:

>> In conclusion, we do not want the 'summary' attribute value exposed by
>> UAs by default in the flow of a document. We need to leave that up to
>> authors and users. However, authoring modes and in the chrome exposure
>> of the 'summary' attribute helps ensure proper use of the attribute.
> 
> Well put. Let me describe what I think is not an uncommon situation for 
> web authors...
> 
> As a front-end web author, I get my style direction from a graphic 
> designer/art director and copy from the marketing/content folks. 
> Inserting visible extra copy (table summary information)  into a web 
> document, whether that is @summary exposed in the normal flow of the 
> document, or stuffing @summary information into caption, will almost 
> certainly raise objections from the sources of style and content 
> direction. Yes, in theory, I might be able to convince those parties 
> that the visible @summary information is valuable and should be 
> retained, but I can assure you that I will lose that argument in the 
> vast majority of cases.
> 
> @summary, as it currently stands, allows me as a front-end author, to 
> add this valuable information without in a manner that will not be 
> overruled.
> 
> Keeping @summary and @caption separate and retaining the the rendering 
> differences gives me the flexibility to add valuable metadata in places 
> where I would _not_, given all other considerations, otherwise be able 
> to add it.

If this was related to caption@summary, then the argument is that 
it is easier to convince third parties about <table 
summary="Text."> than about <caption summary="Text."></caption>.

Yes, one problem with caption@summary is: what if the site has 
caption{height:1em}, then you will have to e.g. apply <caption 
style="height:0" summmary="Text."> to hide the box of the caption.

But this can also be an advantage. It becomes easy to check which 
tables you added a caption@summary for.

caption[summary]{background:red;height:1em}
-- 
leif halvard silli
Received on Sunday, 1 March 2009 23:48:58 UTC

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