- From: Steven Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
- Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 10:20:32 +0000
- To: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>, HTML WG <public-html@w3.org>
- Cc: Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>, "W3C WAI Protocols & Formats" <w3c-wai-pf@w3.org>, wai-liaison@w3.org
- Message-ID: <55687cf80902180220o6fbef2f0gad42426ac914a609@mail.gmail.com>
Hi Ian, Ian hickson wrote: "It is encouraging that certain users are in fact able to navigate the Web without coming across the overwhelmingly bad uses of summary=""." [1] "In fact, the main argument against keeping <table summary=""> is that legacy content has abused it so badly that it is unusable. " [2] Can you clarify what the basis for these claims of "overwhelmingly bad uses of summary=""" are? If they are based on the data gathered by Philip Taylor [3], he said recently "Philip notes that his thing was not attempting to be a particularly useful or detailed or well-thought-out survey, it was just scraping some easily-available information" [4] Which suggests it is not a basis for claimimg that "legacy content has abused it so badly that it is unusable" Likewise ben millards data [5] has little to say about @summary use and nothing that supports such a claim. On digging into philips data a little bit and measuring its effect upon users who's screen reading software provides access to the information it is found that in the overwhelming majority of cases the incorrect uses of @summary are not announced to screan reader users. Why? Because screen reading software (JAWS and Window eyes) that supports @summary also uses heuristics to suppress the announcement of layout tables to users Why? because of the rampant misuse of tables for formatting content rather than for organising data, as was intended. From adhoc testing I carried out it appears that the presence or abscence of a @summary (whatever its content) does not make a difference to whether a layout table is presented to a user. So i suggest from philips data, (informative as it may be, but a useful basis for an objective assessment it is not), the net effect of the misuse is minimal. After last weeks html working group teleconference I undertook a small study myself: summary attribute usage data ( http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/misc/summary.html) I am not making any wild claims about this study, but do suggest that from this sample, for the large majority of cases where @summary was used, it was used on data tables in way that may be useful to the users its intended for. In conclusion: @summary is well supported by AT , its misuse at whatever level (though I would say claims are overstated) has little effect upon users. Therefore I suggest that it would be useful to talk to the screen reader users (its intended audience) that are on the W3C HTML working group and the W3C WAI groups and heed their advice on the utility of the @summary. [1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Feb/0398.html [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Feb/0393.html [3] http://canvex.lazyilluminati.com/misc/summary.html [4] http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/html-wg/20090212#l-455 [5] http://projectcerbera.com/web/study/2007/tables, http://projectcerbera.com/web/study/2008/tables -- with regards Steve Faulkner Technical Director - TPG Europe Director - Web Accessibility Tools Consortium www.paciellogroup.com | www.wat-c.org Web Accessibility Toolbar - http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
Received on Wednesday, 18 February 2009 10:21:17 UTC