- From: Steven Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
- Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 13:38:48 +0100
- To: stephane.deschamps@orange-ftgroup.com
- Cc: "HTML WG" <public-html@w3.org>, "W3C WAI-XTECH" <wai-xtech@w3.org>
Hi Stephane, > Which leads to the conclusion that the headers/id constructs should be kept > in the spec as a complement to the scope method, as it has *some* uses that > cannot be done with scope. That is what we have been arguing all along, the additon of a scope alogorithm that provides the required associations correctly without the need to use the more cumbersome headers/id method is great. It means that in the majosiry of cases use of id/headers will not be needed. Unfortunately a scope based algorithm does not do the job for some complex and irregular tables. hence the need for headers being extended to reference td. Without more robust support for id/headers in HTML5 either tables will have to be redesigned or a second version provided to fit the limitations of the accessibility features available in HTML5 or the id/headers can be used and the result will be non-conformant. In my day to day work, while I can suggest simplicity to overcome a limitation of html features, it often dosn't wash with clients, who are often quite specific in their requirements. btw The issue of id/headers being being more prone to authoring errors is not one we encounter much, as we are usually dealing with vendors of web based applications, and once the id/headers associations rules are built in the back end, the many permutations of output data tables which require their use are generated automatically without error. regards stevef 2008/9/2 <stephane.deschamps@orange-ftgroup.com>: > > > -----Message d'origine----- > De : Joshue O Connor > Envoyé : vendredi 29 août 2008 16:31 > Objet : Re: table headers - clear description of problem > >>>> Why not mark all the header cells as <th> and enable hierarchical > headers by >>>> allowing a <th> cell to point to another <th> using the headers > attribute? >>> >>> At the moment, nested headers aren't allowed. If the spec is changed >>> so that they are allowed, I wouldn't want header elements in the >>> middle of a data table, as the header wouldn't apply to the row or >>> column it's in, but a conceptual header for the cells that reference >>> it. Allowing the headers attribute to reference a td is logical, >>> simple, and it works in current implementations. >> >>I agree. I think the conceptual headers approach means that we can still >>use *pure* headers as they were intended and allow td cells to reference >>others so they can behave like headers as needed. > > > Which leads to the conclusion that the headers/id constructs should be kept > in the spec as a complement to the scope method, as it has *some* uses that > cannot be done with scope. > > (as in: it's not just a problem of a specific UA or accessibility tool that > does not implement scope properly, it's also a broader problem that should > be kept in mind) > > -- > Kind regards, > Stéphane Deschamps > FT/ROSI/DDSI/APT/ IT Accessibility > Web HCI expert > orange / france telecom group > > > > ********************************* > This message and any attachments (the "message") are confidential and intended solely for the addressees. > Any unauthorised use or dissemination is prohibited. > Messages are susceptible to alteration. > France Telecom Group shall not be liable for the message if altered, changed or falsified. > If you are not the intended addressee of this message, please cancel it immediately and inform the sender. > ******************************** > > -- with regards Steve Faulkner Technical Director - TPG Europe Director - Web Accessibility Tools Consortium www.paciellogroup.com | www.wat-c.org Web Accessibility Toolbar - http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
Received on Tuesday, 2 September 2008 12:39:24 UTC