- From: Murray Maloney <murray@muzmo.com>
- Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 17:00:44 -0400
- To: Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis <bhawkeslewis@googlemail.com>
- Cc: www-html@w3.org,public-html@w3.org
At 06:43 PM 5/6/2007 +0100, Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis wrote: >Murray Maloney wrote: >>Italics are a form of emphasis in Western publishing. > >We need to distinguish between two notions of "emphasis": (1) visual >markers that distinguish one bit of text from another and (2) authors >stressing particular words or parts of a document. I am missing the distinction. How does one achieve (2) w/o simultaneously using (1). >I think the web standards movement assumes that <em> and <strong> relate >to (2) whereas <i> and <b> relate to (1). For random examples dredged up >with a search engine, see: > >http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/phrase/em.html Which says: "Since EM is a structural element, it carries meaning, making it preferable to font style elements such as I when emphasis is the intended meaning." What the heck does that mean: "Since EM is a structural element, it carries meaning" I may not have a PhD, but that premise is meaningless to me. Always has been. The URIs that you cited all propagate the myth that <em> is somehow semantic <i> is not. >This seems to be a reasonable assumption, given HTML 4.01's turn towards >semantic markup, given WCAG's discussion of how em and strong imply >"structural emphasis", and given common dictionary definitions of emphasis: > >WCAG: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-HTML-TECHS/#text-emphasis Further propagation of an unfounded proposition. >Mirriam-Websters: http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/emphasis 1 a : force or intensity of expression that gives impressiveness or importance to something b : a particular prominence given in reading or speaking to one or more words or syllables 2 : special consideration of or stress or insistence on something I take this to say that italic, bold, underline, strikethrough, ALL CAPS, yelling and whispering would all qualify as forms of emphasis, not to mention the full range of colors, vocal intonations, etc. Let me put that differently. The simple act of using markup around a phrase is emphasizing that phrase. Any markup. We have to examine the markup, the phrase and often the context in which it appears to discern the significance of the emphasis that is being placed on a given phrase. Depending on the media in which we are communicating, we may choose different methods for drawing attention (or not) to the phrase. Let me say that again, all markup is emphasis. The important question is always: why are we emphasizing this phrase? >This seems to be the sense in which the Oxford Style Guide (the British >equivalent of the Chicago Manual of Style) uses "emphasis" too. By this >usage, /one/ use of italics is to signify emphasis in Western publishing, >but that does not make italics /only/ a form of emphasis. For the purposes of our discussion, what other aspect of italics are you interested in exploring? I asserted that bold and italics are forms of emphasis. I further asserted that <b> and <i> were the twins of <string> and <em>. >I don't have a Chicago Manual to hand, but its table of contents suggests >it likewise makes a conceptual distinction between italics generally and >italics used for emphasis: > >http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/ch07/ch07_toc.html I'm not sure what you are seeing, but as a document publisher with some experience, I am willing to go out on a limb and say that italic type is used to effect emphasis for a variety of reasons, including pure artistry. >-- >Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
Received on Sunday, 6 May 2007 21:01:09 UTC