- From: Sander Tekelenburg <st@isoc.nl>
- Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 17:06:51 +0200
- To: public-html@w3.org
At 13:39 +0200 UTC, on 2007-08-31, Leif Halvard Silli wrote: >>> On 2007-08-30 18:06:26 +0200 Sander Tekelenburg <st@isoc.nl> wrote: >>>> At 05:43 +0200 UTC, on 2007-08-30, Leif Halvard Silli wrote: >>>> >>>> [...] >>>> >>>>> The HTML5 draft says that TITLE and ALT should be showed in >>>>> different ways. >>>>> But perhaps is enough to say that they should be showed in different >>>>> ways only if the element has both a TITLE and an ALT text? >>>> >>>> I'd think that would result in inconsistent behaviour, which would >>>> hurt usability. [...] > I was just reading the text of the draft: «User agents must not present the >contents of the alt attribute in the same way as content of the title >attribute.» Right. That text makes perfect sense to me. It intends to ensure that UAs make it clear to the user which is the textual equivalent, and which the advisory information. > A reformulation could be that UAs must present ALT text, only not so that >it confused with the TITLE text. I don't understand. The current text (that you quoted) says exactly that. > And since the spec is supposed ot be media independent, this goes for >screeen readers as well. Of course. > (Hence, to say that screen readers can just use TITLE with ALT is not >available is backwards.) Indeed. But where does the spec say that? All I know is that some UAs (Jaws) have been reported to be configurable (might be the default; that hasn't been reported) to present the contents of @title when @alt isn't available. We don't even know if in that case the UA indicates that it is reading @title. > The «side-by-side» here is valid about TITLE vs. ALT: _they_ must not be >presented in such a way that you do not understnad what is TITLE and what is >ALT. Indeed. > I do (of course) not think that ALT and the image should be presented side >by side. Well actually I *do* think that UAs should make it possible for users to consume multiple equivalents simultaneously. We've had the examples of needing to read a transcript along with listening to audio; the example of someone relying on screen magnification who wouldbe helped by being able to consume both the image and the textual equivalent; and just the plain and simple case where it is just not clear to anyone what the image is meant to convey. So IMO UAs must by default present only a single equivalent, but should make it possible for users to consume multiple equivalents simultaneously. I wouldn't mind at all if that sentence would be added to the spec. [...] > Btw, I think the proper description of TITLE is to say that it is about >(describing the) _context_. A flag can have different meanings. But TITLE >can advice us that alt="English" refers to TITLE="Nationality". Sure. To the best of my knowledg that's what both HTML 4.01 and HTML5 say: @title is for advisory information. -- Sander Tekelenburg The Web Repair Initiative: <http://webrepair.org/>
Received on Friday, 31 August 2007 15:13:49 UTC