- From: John Boyer <boyerj@ca.ibm.com>
- Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 19:52:20 -0700
- To: Daniel Glazman <daniel.glazman@disruptive-innovations.com>
- Cc: Dave Raggett <dsr@w3.org>, Matthew Raymond <mattraymond@earthlink.net>, Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>, public-html@w3.org, Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer <sebastian@dreamlab.net>
- Message-ID: <OF58037BC4.CDB1A22D-ON882572CC.000EEE05-882572CC.000FC7EE@ca.ibm.com>
Hi Daniel, I am deeply familiar with requirements of forms for vertical industries. 1) Weaknesses in CSS should not be used as an excuse for limiting innovation in HTML, otherwise limitations in HTML will then be used as an excuse for limiting advancement of CSS. 2a) Verticals like insurance are finding huge benefits from XForms. You completely miss the point. The spreadsheet was built to move power *out of the hands* of expensive professionals and into the hands of people closer to the domain experts. XForms seeks the same effect now. Before high level language were invented, only expensive contractors were able to maintain the machine language needed for computer programs. Now we're having the same thing happen with the machine language of the web, and it's time to learn the high level language lesson again. 2b) Why on earth do you think XForms is different in spirit than the "main content language's"? First of all, the spirit of the language is what you define it to be, so XForms is only against the grain if you choose it to be. Second, HTML markup is inherently declarative. It says "there shall exist a form and it shall contain these controls and the controls shall have these properties" and so it does and they do and they do. The only thing we're talking about here is whether a "property" is allowed to be dynamically defined via an expression. What you want is to have the properties exist and only be changeable by external imperative means. That isn't the only way to do things, and it certainly isn't always the best. John M. Boyer, Ph.D. STSM: Lotus Forms Architect and Researcher Chair, W3C Forms Working Group Workplace, Portal and Collaboration Software IBM Victoria Software Lab E-Mail: boyerj@ca.ibm.com Blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/JohnBoyer Daniel Glazman <daniel.glazman@disruptive-innovations.com> Sent by: public-html-request@w3.org 04/28/2007 05:55 PM To John Boyer/CanWest/IBM@IBMCA cc Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>, Dave Raggett <dsr@w3.org>, Matthew Raymond <mattraymond@earthlink.net>, public-html@w3.org, Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer <sebastian@dreamlab.net> Subject Re: About the Web Forms 2 proposal John Boyer wrote: > Have you ever tried to put an insurance or financial application online? I did, in former professionnal lives. Thinking back about it, I can draw two conclusions : 1. CSS is still far from allowing an existing insurance or financial form to be online because it does not allow to position a given element in function of the position of any other arbitrary element. Please take a look at [1] to understand what I mean. 2. the last 2 things an insurance or financial organization putting an application online wants are a. a forms language so complex only an expensive contractor is able to maintain it b. a forms language with a spirit different from the main content language's I have zillions of real-life examples. [1] http://daniel.glazman.free.fr/weblog/position__new.html </Daniel>
Received on Sunday, 29 April 2007 02:52:31 UTC