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Re: {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2011-06-30 WG Issues, Calls, TAG Issue (RDFa/Microdata), author-view

From: Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 12:42:03 -0400
Message-ID: <4E0CA75B.90808@intertwingly.net>
To: public-html-wg-announce@w3.org
The minutes for the Jun 30 WG Weekly meeting are available at:

http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-html-wg-minutes.html 
<http://www.w3.org/2011/06/23-html-wg-minutes.html>

and below.

- Sam Ruby

W3C <http://www.w3.org/>


  - DRAFT -


  HTML Weekly Teleconference


    30 Jun 2011


    Attendees

Present
Regrets
Chair
    SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
    paulc


    Contents

    * Topics <http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-html-wg-minutes.html#agenda>
         1. Action items due today
            <http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-html-wg-minutes.html#item01>
         2. New issues this week
            <http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-html-wg-minutes.html#item02>
         3. Items closed last week
            <http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-html-wg-minutes.html#item03>
         4. Items closing this week
            <http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-html-wg-minutes.html#item04>
         5. Items closing next week
            <http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-html-wg-minutes.html#item05>
         6. New calls this week
            <http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-html-wg-minutes.html#item06>
         7. New surveys this week
            <http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-html-wg-minutes.html#item07>
         8. New decisions this week
            <http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-html-wg-minutes.html#item08>
         9. Other business
            <http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-html-wg-minutes.html#item09>
        10. Chair and scribe for the next meeting
            <http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-html-wg-minutes.html#item10>
        11. Adjournment
            <http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-html-wg-minutes.html#item11>
    * Summary of Action Items
      <http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-html-wg-minutes.html#ActionSummary>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 13092] New: unambiguously determine the encoding 
<11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Jun/1272.html>

<gsnedders> heycam: The Web Kit would be perfectly normal in general 
NeXT/OS X framework speak. (But note it remains capitalized, and "kit" 
becomes a separate word.)

<heycam> gsnedders, hmm, is there a distinction drawn between "WebKit" 
and "Web Kit"?

<gsnedders> heycam: "WebKit" or "The Web Kit" would be the normal forms 
(i.e., you separate "Kit" with the definite article)

<heycam> gsnedders, I see 
http://developer.apple.com/internet/webservices/webkitreg.html does 
refer to it as "the Web Kit"

<pimpbot> Title: Using the Web Kit for Application Registration (at 
developer.apple.com)

<heycam> hadn't seen it before :)

<pimpbot> planet: Janet Swisher: Webinar: Deconstructing HTML5 video 
(The Spirit of Indiana Jones, Redux) 
<11http://hacks.mozilla.org/2011/06/webinar-deconstructing-html5-video/>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 13094] First there was the <img> tag. Now, with 
HTML5, <audio> and <video> tags are being introduced (which also have 
the helpful controls attribute). This covers the 3 most important media 
types, namely pictures, music, and videos. However, there is a fourth ty 
<11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Jun/1275.html> 
4** [Bug 13094] New: First there was the <img> tag. Now, with HTML5, 
<audio> and <video> tags are bein

<pimpbot> planet: Jesper Kristensen: Firefox/Gecko Delivery Meeting 
Minutes: 2011-06-29 
<11http://blog.mozilla.com/meeting-notes/archives/592> 4** Planet Opera: 
Haavard K. Moen: From C++ to HTML5: Rebuilding a game using open web 
standards <11http://my.opera.com/haavard/blog/show.dml/31814782>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 12844] Remove the label attribute from 
subclasses of HTMLElement 
<11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Jun/1276.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 12844] Remove the label attribute from 
subclasses of HTMLElement" (2 messages in thread) 
<11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Jun/1277.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 12844] Remove the label attribute from 
subclasses of HTMLElement 
<11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Jun/1279.html> 
4** [Bug 13085] Enhancement: Set component for whole image? 
<11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Jun/1278.html>

<pimpbot> planet: ercimomweb: Call for Trainers: "HTML5 for Rich Media" 
<11http://openmediaweb.eu/2011/06/30/call-for-trainers-html5-for-rich-media/>

<pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 13095] setTimeout behavior seems to be 
undefined if ToString throws" (2 messages in thread) 
<11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Jun/1282.html> 
4** [Bug 13095] New: setTimeout behavior seems to be undefined if 
ToString throws 
<11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Jun/1280.html>

<hsivonen> jsoref: pong

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 13092] unambiguously determine the encoding 
<11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Jun/1283.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 13090] Turtle markup includes invalid QNames 
<11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Jun/1284.html>

<pimpbot> planet: Steve Faulkner: Web Accessibility Toolbar 2011 
<11http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2011/03/web-accessibility-toolbar-2011-2/>

<pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 13090] Turtle markup includes invalid QNames" 
(2 messages in thread) 
<11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Jun/1285.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 13085] Enhancement: Set component for whole 
image? 
<11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Jun/1287.html> 
4** [Bug 13096] New: Enhancement: Set single component for pixel 
<11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Jun/1286.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 13096] Enhancement: Set single component for 
pixel 
<11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Jun/1290.html> 
4** [Bug 13097] <script type="text/javascript" 
src="http://platform.linkedin.com/in.js"></script><script 
type="in/share"></script> 
<11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Jun/1289.html> 
4** [Bug 13097] New: <script type="text/javascript" 
src="http://platform.linkedin.com/in.js"></scri

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 13085] Enhancement: Set component for whole 
image? 
<11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Jun/1291.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 13098] New: State that <wbr> represents the SOFT 
HYPHEN character (U+00AD/&shy;/&#xad;) 
<11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Jun/1292.html>

<rubys> trackbot, start meeting

<trackbot> Date: 30 June 2011

just joining on phone

Zakim appears to be very slow today

<scribe> scribenick: paulc


      Action items due today

None


      New issues this week

There are three new issues.

ISSUE166?

ISSUE-166?

<trackbot> ISSUE-166 -- text/html-sandboxed does not always fail closed 
-- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/166

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-166: text/html-sandboxed does not always fail 
closed - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

ISSUE-167?

<trackbot> ISSUE-167 -- Remove the crossorigin attribute and CORS 
normative dependency -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/167

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-167: Remove the crossorigin attribute and CORS 
normative dependency - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

ISSUE-168?

<trackbot> ISSUE-168 -- Remove typemustmatch -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/168

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-168: Remove typemustmatch - HTML Weekly Tracker 
(at www.w3.org)

Calls for -166 and -167 are below on the agenda.

Call for -168 will follow next week.


      Items closed last week

ISSUE-30?

<trackbot> ISSUE-30 -- Should HTML 5 include a longdesc attribute for 
images -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/30

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-30: Should HTML 5 include a longdesc attribute 
for images - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

Two counter proposals were received. We now have three.

Chairs will allow some time for discussion before a survey.

Chairs will move when discussion has died down. We will see how long 
that takes.

ISSUE-153?

<trackbot> ISSUE-153 -- link type "external" either not useful or 
underspecified -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/153

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-153: link type "external" either not useful or 
underspecified - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

One change proposal for -153 was recevied. Call for counters is later on 
agenda.

ISSUE-154?

<trackbot> ISSUE-154 -- "sidebar" might not be a proper use of a link 
relation -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/154

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-154: "sidebar" might not be a proper use of a 
link relation - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

One change proposal for -154 was recevied. Call for counters is later on 
agenda.


      Items closing this week

ISSUE-134?

<trackbot> ISSUE-134 -- Provide tablist and tab states for menu and 
command elements respectively -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/134

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-134: Provide tablist and tab states for menu and 
command elements respectively - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

Call for counter proposals closes at midnight Boston time on Jul 1 
(tomorrow).

If no counters received we will do a CfC on the original proposal.

ISSUE-150?

<trackbot> ISSUE-150 -- consider reducing verbosity when talking about 
code points -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/150

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-150: consider reducing verbosity when talking 
about code points - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

Same status as for -134.

Waiting for a counter proposal and due date is Jul 1.

ISSUE-163?

<trackbot> ISSUE-163 -- Need a means for navigating between related 
timed tracks of media elements -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/163

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-163: Need a means for navigating between related 
timed tracks of media elements - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

Awaiting for an oriiginal proposal.

Janina: Syliva P will submit a proposal

Proposals for -163 are due Jul 1.

ISSUE-174?

<trackbot> ISSUE-174 does not exist

ISSUE-164?

<trackbot> ISSUE-164 -- remove or modify hgroup -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/164

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-164: remove or modify hgroup - HTML Weekly 
Tracker (at www.w3.org)

Change proposals are due on Jul 1 and we have now 2 proposals.

We would expect a Call for Counter Proposals next week.


      Items closing next week

ISSUE-151?

<trackbot> ISSUE-151 -- Remove WhatWG and html5.org references in status 
section of document -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/151

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-151: Remove WhatWG and html5.org references in 
status section of document - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

Counter proposals are due on Jul 8. We have a total of 3 proposals so far.

ISSUE-165?

<trackbot> ISSUE-165 -- Drop rel=pingback -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/165

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-165: Drop rel=pingback - HTML Weekly Tracker (at 
www.w3.org)

Change proposals are due Jul 8. No proposals so far.


      New calls this week

ISSUE-166?

<trackbot> ISSUE-166 -- text/html-sandboxed does not always fail closed 
-- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/166

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-166: text/html-sandboxed does not always fail 
closed - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<Julian> re ISSUE-166: is the title "text/html-sandboxed does not always 
fail closed" correct?

Change proposals are due Jul 28.

ISSUE-167?

<trackbot> ISSUE-167 -- Remove the crossorigin attribute and CORS 
normative dependency -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/167

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-167: Remove the crossorigin attribute and CORS 
normative dependency - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

Change proposals are due Jul 28.

ISSUE-153?

<trackbot> ISSUE-153 -- link type "external" either not useful or 
underspecified -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/153

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-153: link type "external" either not useful or 
underspecified - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

Counter proposals are due Jul 28. We one change proposal.

ISSUE-154?

<trackbot> ISSUE-154 -- "sidebar" might not be a proper use of a link 
relation -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/154

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-154: "sidebar" might not be a proper use of a 
link relation - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

We have one change proposal. counter proposals are due Jul 28.


      New surveys this week

None


      New decisions this week

None


      Other business

a) ISSUE-133?

ISSUE-133?

<trackbot> ISSUE-133 -- Add a modal attribute to html5 to indicate a 
modal segment of the DOM (modal dialog) -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/133

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-133: Add a modal attribute to html5 to indicate a 
modal segment of the DOM (modal dialog) - HTML Weekly Tracker (at 
www.w3.org)

<rubys> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Jun/0389.html

Request to move the deadline for counter proposals is moved to August 6

<pimpbot> Title: Re: ISSUE-133 modal-attribute - Chairs Solicit 
Alternate Proposals or Counter-Proposals from Maciej Stachowiak on 
2011-06-25 (public-html@w3.org from June 2011) (at lists.w3.org)

There was a request for this extension and no objections.

b) TAG issue on HTML+RDFa and Microsoft LC drafts

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 13098] State that <wbr> represents the SOFT 
HYPHEN character (U+00AD/&shy;/&#xad;) 
<11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Jun/1296.html> 
4** [Bug 13099] Why doesn't the SELECT element have a placeholder 
attribute? Often a dropdown box contains an initial text like "Please 
make a choice". 
<11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Jun/1295.html> 
4** [Bug 12664] Warn about the perils of regis

<rubys> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Jun/0366.html

<pimpbot> Title: TAG issue on HTML+RDFa and Microdata last call drafts 
from Noah Mendelsohn on 2011-06-24 (public-html@w3.org from June 2011) 
(at lists.w3.org)

Paul will volunteer to do the FPWD transition request

<Zakim> MikeSmith, you wanted to say that for spec author-view FPWD, 
chairs need to send a FPWD transition request to Philippe, Cc chairs 
list and w3t-comm

Paul: I don't think we need to do anything about the TF. That was 
directed at the Director.

<Julian> 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-comments/2011Jun/0038.html

<pimpbot> Title: TAG issue on HTML+RDFa and Microdata last call drafts 
from Noah Mendelsohn on 2011-06-24 (public-html-comments@w3.org from 
June 2011) (at lists.w3.org)

Paul: I suggest we ask for bug reports to be opened on the LC drafts.

plh: We could respond explaining why the WG thinks that two documents 
are fine.

Sam: Perhaps the issue from the TAG is too high level for a single bug.

Mike: I agree

<Julian> "Specifically, our opinion is that the W3C should not publish two

Paul: Should we go back to the TAG and ask for detailed bug reports?

<Julian> specifications that meet such similar requirements in 
incompatible ways. We

<Julian> think doing so would cause confusion for users and 
implementers, promote

<Julian> lock-in, and fragment the web. We request that the W3C Director 
set up a

<Julian> task force to find agreement on a way forward."

<Julian> ...sounds like something that could be entered as a bug

Sam: yes, they can come either from the TAG or the requested TF.

Julian; Could we open a bug with the above text?

Sam: I expect it would get an immediate NEEDSINFO
... We need the TF or TAG to generate bug reports

Paul: The bugs need to be directed at a specific document not two documents.

Julian: I think the WG should do something.
... I think there should a bugzilla entry.

Sam: Not sure which Editor would process this high level bug.

Maciej: They need to be clearer in what they want.

PLH: Do we believe users will know which syntax to use?
... If we go back to the TAG they will say they followed the process and 
filed a comment.

<Julian> +1 to 2 bugs

Sam: I proposed that Mike converts this into a bug and that we 
immediately respond with NEEDSINFO.

Paul: could we file one generic bug and then on each RDFa and Microdata.

<MikeSmith> I can file the same bug against both the RDFa and Microdata 
specs

<Julian> +1

Sam: We cannot leave the component blank.

Mike: Will create two bugs that are clones and will make one dependent 
on the other.

Summary: 1. Mike will create two bugs - one on each of RDFa and 
Microdata. 2. We will ask for expedited processing (P1) which will 
likely cause NEEDSINFO to come back.

2. Mike should in this case add the someone from the TAG to the bug.

Alternative 2. Mike's auto email will inform the TAG of what has happened.

Paul: Will the TF be created in the next 2 weeks?

PLH: unlikely

Sam: That means that detailed bugs will not likely be done before our 
Aug 4 deadline.

<MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13100

<pimpbot> 1113100: mike+html-wg-mailbot, P1, NEW, 13TAG issue on 
HTML+RDFa and Microdata last call drafts

<MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13101

<pimpbot> 1113101: mike, P1, NEW, 13TAG issue on HTML+RDFa and Microdata 
last call drafts

PLH: RDFa document suggests to send comments to the RDF WG instead of 
the HTML WG comments list

Sam: I suggest we open a bug on this.

PLH: But that is in the publication.

Paul: I volunteer to get in touch with the TAG co-chair to follow up on 
this by the middle of July to ensure that we don't have a timing problem

Sam: back to the agenda
... Any other business. We have done the TAG issue and the FPWD

No other business from the floor.


      Chair and scribe for the next meeting

Paul is scheduled to Chair.

Ted will volunteer to scribe.

THANK YOU.


      Adjournment


    Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]
Received on Thursday, 30 June 2011 16:42:34 UTC

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