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Re: Final Linked Data Glossary (was Re: def'n of resource?)

From: Dave Reynolds <dave.e.reynolds@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 21:59:54 +0100
Message-ID: <519FD4CA.4030200@gmail.com>
To: John Erickson <olyerickson@gmail.com>
CC: Bernadette Hyland <bhyland@3roundstones.com>, "public-gld-wg@w3.org" <public-gld-wg@w3.org>
+1 to all of that.

My only point was that *within* an Enterprise things are different. I 
don't agree that internal datasets and endpoints should always have a 
rights statement. No one that I know of has internal "rights statements" 
associated with, for example, BI systems or particular ETL extracts. 
What they have is rock solid access controls, management oversight, 
conditions of use etc. That's not "rights" in the legal sense of the 
term. The same applies to intra-enterprise use of Linked Data.

Of course if an Enterprise shares data in some form, whether with 
selected partners or the broader world, then the rights must be clear 
and clearly stated.

Dave

On 24/05/13 18:45, John Erickson wrote:
> Bernadette asked for feedback on Section 11, "Specifying an
> Appropriate License" <http://bit.ly/W3CGLDBPSec11>
>
> 1. The first paragraph reads, "It is best practice to explicitly
> attach a license statement to each data set. Governments typically
> define ownership of works produced by government employees or
> contractors in legislation. It is beyond the charter of this working
> group to describe and recommend appropriate licenses for Open
> Government content published as Linked Data, however there are useful
> Web sites that offer detailed guidance and licenses. One valuable
> resource is the Creative Commons website. Creative Commons develops,
> supports, and stewards legal and technical infrastructure for digital
> content publishing."
>
> * I would recommend this be changed to "attach some form of rights
> statement, which may in some jurisdictions be a license statement."
> The latter is more specialized wording.
> * As per the most recent editors' draft of W3C DCAT, such a rights
> statement may be attached by...
> ** creating a web page containing the rights statement, for the either
> a specific dataset or an entire catalog
> ** use the resultant URL as the object of dct:rights
> ** Alternatively (esp. in cases where data is published under "open"
> licenses) provide a link to a standard license from e.g. Creative
> Commons
> ** In ALL cases some explicit assertion of rights is preferred over NO assertion
>
> 2. I won't repeat the second paragraph here, but the gist of it is
> that (a) ALL governments publish data under known rights regimes,
> which may vary from country to country, and (b) ALL consumers of data,
> including those within government agencies, SHOULD be conscious of the
> terms under which they are consuming and potentially re-publishing
> data or works derived from that data. Just as with copyright, the
> responsible data re-user wants to know the rights of the component
> pieces of their work.
>
> The ultimate point here is, we're trying to reduce entropy by
> encouraging good practices in the explicit assertion of rights,
> regardless of whether those rights are captured by "open licenses" or
> otherwise.
>
> Related point: To me, this is fundamentally the point of the recent
> (crappily-named) "Is there money in linked data" meme. Datasets being
> published without clear, actionable rights statements are mucking-up
> the linked data ecosystem...
>
> John
>
>
> On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Bernadette Hyland
> <bhyland@3roundstones.com> wrote:
>> Agree John.
>>
>> If you care to review/provide feedback for the "specifying an appropriate license" section of the Best Practices deliverable, I'd personally be very grateful.[1]
>>
>> FTR, can we use the TLA "LED" for Linked Enterprise Data ;-)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Bernadette Hyland
>>
>> [1] https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/bp/index.html#specifying-an-appropriate-license
>>
>>
>> On May 24, 2013, at 4:51, John Erickson <olyerickson@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dave wrote:
>>>
>>>> ["on the web with an explict expression of rights" is not massively
>>>> Enterprise Linked Data friendly but it's better than nothing.]
>>>
>>> This is a good point; ELD-friendliness probably prefers "a web" rather
>>> than The Web(tm). But I don't know how to make this non-tedious ;)
>>>
>>> I stand by "explicit expression of rights," because of the critical
>>> need to have a clear understanding of the rights disposition of data
>>> resources published within and/or imported into an organization. The
>>> same is true of other forms of IP published within or imported into
>>> organizations...and even today this is not always done well.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>> On 24/05/13 12:19, John Erickson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Once again, Sandro's actionable version, with an "out" added for
>>>>> closed-ness...
>>>>>
>>>>> 1-star: Publish your data on the Web in any format (eg PDF or JPEG
>>>>> image of a table of numbers) and linking to an explicit expression of
>>>>> rights. (For linked open data, use an "open license")
>>>>>
>>>>> 2-star: [As above, plus...] Publish your data in a structured,
>>>>> machine-readable format (e.g. an application's own data files, perhaps
>>>>> in binary or XML)
>>>>>
>>>>> 3-star: [As above, plus...] Publish your data in a documented,
>>>>> non-proprietary format (eg CSV, KML)
>>>>>
>>>>> 4-star: [As above, plus...] Publish an RDF (subject-property-value)
>>>>> view of your data (eg a Turtle file, or a SPARQL endpoint for a SQL
>>>>> database)
>>>>>
>>>>> 5-star: [As above, plus...] Use common identifiers based on resolvable
>>>>> links to useful or definitive data sources (e.g. use
>>>>> <http://www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee/card#i> as the identifier for
>>>>> Tim
>>>>> Berners-Lee)
>>>>>
>>>>> FWIW, Tim's revised mug (i.e with the [OPEN] option) said:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1-star: On the web (with an) [OPEN LICENSE] <= same as above...but
>>>>> with the above, the data provider has more of a clue how to take
>>>>> action.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2-star: Machine-readable data <= same as above...
>>>>>
>>>>> 3-star: Non-proprietary format <= same as above...
>>>>>
>>>>> 4-star: RDF standards <= same as above...
>>>>>
>>>>> 5-star: Linked RDF <= same as above...
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 6:20 AM, Dave Reynolds
>>>>> <dave.e.reynolds@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry to open this one up yet again. But given yesterday's missive from
>>>>>> tbl
>>>>>> [1] I think we need to include the non-open variant of the 5* as well as
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> open one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/semantic-web/2013May/0199.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 23/05/13 13:11, Bernadette Hyland wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Marios,
>>>>>>> For simplicity, let's go with Sandro's suggestion in this thread, OK?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bernadette
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On May 23, 2013, at 3:53, Marios Meimaris <m.meimaris@medialab.ntua.gr
>>>>>>> <mailto:m.meimaris@medialab.ntua.gr>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Sandro, Bernadette, all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> May I suggest
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *5. In your RDF, have some (or all) of the identifiers be links (URLs)
>>>>>>>> to useful external data sources.*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Marios
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *5: In your RDF, have the identifiers be links (URLs) to useful data
>>>>>>>>> sources*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Okay?   Can we live with that?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>        -- Sandro
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>   Bernadette Hyland <bhyland@3roundstones.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>> Remaining feedback folded in especially in relation to definition of
>>>>>>>>>>> "Resource", addition of "Web Resource" and fixing 5 star LOD
>>>>>>>>>>> definition.  Also updated normative references in doc.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Linked Data Glossary Draft 21-May 2013 [1] is ready for publication
>>>>>>>>>>> once run through one last PubRules check.  (Last week the WG
>>>>>>>>>>> approved
>>>>>>>>>>> to publish as a WG Note.)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> NB:  Editorial changes are to keep tone consistent with rest of the
>>>>>>>>>>> document, however were not intended to alter the proposed meaning.
>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>> this unintentionally happened, please notify asap.  Reference to RFC
>>>>>>>>>>> 3986 was made elsewhere so I dropped from below proposal so as to
>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>> sound repetitive.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Again, we're striving for simplicity and for this to be a glossary
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> terms for Web developers, not the anointed per se.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> All OK now per your feedback??
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----%<-------
>>>>>>>>>>> 90. Resource
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In an RDF context, a resource can be anything that an RDF graph
>>>>>>>>>>> describes. A resource can be addressed by a Unified Resource
>>>>>>>>>>> Identifier
>>>>>>>>>>> (URI). See also Resource Description Framework (RDF) 1.1 Concepts
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> Abstract Syntax [RDF11-CONCEPTS]
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 127. Web Resource
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> A web page addressed by a URL. Examples include: an HTML web page,
>>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>> image offered by a web server, or a dataset accessible by a URL. A
>>>>>>>>>>> Web
>>>>>>>>>>> Resource may have different representations. For example, an RDF
>>>>>>>>>>> database might be accessed at a single URL using multiple syntaxes,
>>>>>>>>>>> such as RDFa, JSON-LD, and Turtle. See also Hypertext Transfer
>>>>>>>>>>> Protocol
>>>>>>>>>>> HTTP/1.1 [RFC2616].
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>> Bernadette Hyland
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> [1]https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/glossary/index.html
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On May 8, 2013, at 5:48 AM, Dave Reynolds<Dave.e.Reynolds@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 08/05/13 05:39, Bernadette Hyland wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Sandro,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The editors have folded in all comments received in relation to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> LD
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Glossary.  Please see latest version. [1]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> For Thursday's telecon, would you create a diff previously
>>>>>>>>>>>>> approved
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> publication (April) & the May 7th (current).  Also, need a new
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Overview.html file run through PubRules.  I'm done until we get
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> further
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> feedback.  Thanks for your help on this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding "Resource", I've simplified to include only one
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> definition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>    In keeping with my new mantra, "keep it simple", how does this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sit with you & others?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Personally I prefer Sandro's suggestion. I imagine that at least
>>>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> people reading the glossary will be aware of the notion of REST and
>>>>>>>>>>> might expect something more like the entry for Web Resource. Having
>>>>>>>>>>> both solves that problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> However, it's not something I would argue strongly over.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      89. Resource
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In an RDF context, a resource can be anything that an RDF graph
>>>>>>>>>>>>> describes. A resource can be addressed by a Unified Resource
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Identifier
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (URI)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/glossary/index.html#uniform-resource-identifier>.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Keep in mind that this LD Glossary is a starting point for those
>>>>>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Linked Data.  We don't want to scare people, it is the 'welcome
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> basket'
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not the definitive guide for the working LD expert (which is found
>>>>>>>>>>>>> elsewhere on the W3C site).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bernadette
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [1]https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/glossary/index.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sandro wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've thought about more than most people have thought about food
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> PS.  Clearly you haven't met my 15 year old son who pretty much
>>>>>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinks about food ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 7, 2013, at 7:15 PM, Sandro Hawke <sandro@w3.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:sandro@w3.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> def'n of resource?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bernadette and I were working on actually publishing the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Glossary,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which the group approved for publication, and I noticed a little
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> problem:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>          86. Resource
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      A resource is anything that can be addressed by a Unified
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Resource
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      Identifier (URI)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> <file:///home/sandro/Repos/gld/glossary/diff.html#uniform-resource-identifiers>.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      ...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>          93. Resource
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      A resource is a network data object or service that can be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      identified by an HTTP URI. Resources may be available in
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> multiple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      representations (e.g. multiple languages, data formats,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> size,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      resolutions) or vary in other ways. See details from RFC
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2616bis
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      for details on Uniform Resource Identifiers. See details
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> RFC
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      2616bis for details on Uniform Resource Identifiers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The definition of Resource is something I've thought about more
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most people have thought about food.  I suggest we call the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> second
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Web Resource", and explain, like this:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      *Resource*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      (Not to be confused with _Web Resource_)  An entity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Saying
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      something is a resource says nothing at all about it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      the definition of the term, everything is a resource.    For
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      details see Uniform Resource Identifier (URI): Generic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Syntax
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> (RFC
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      3986) [1] and Resource Description Framework (RDF) 1.1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Concepts
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> [2].
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      *Web Resource*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      Anything which is addressed by a URL; roughly speaking, a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> web
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      page.  Examples include: an HTML web page, an image offered
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      web server, or a dataset available for access at some URL.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      resource may change its state over time and have different
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      representations of the same state.  For example, a webcam
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      offer both JPEG and PNG versions of its current image, at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      URL, using content negotiation, or an RDF database might be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      accessed at one URL using multiple syntaxes, such as RDFa,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      JSON-LD, and Turtle.   For more details see Hypertext
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Transfer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      Protocol -- HTTP/1.1 [3]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      Sometimes Web Resources are just called "Resources".  In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      contexts, this can cause unnecessary confusion.  The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      related to the distinction between URLs (which identify Web
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      Resources) and URIs (which identify Resources in general),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      discussed inhttp://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3305#page-3
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      [1]http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      [2]
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf11-concepts/#resources-and-statements
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      [3]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/Protocols/HTTP/1.1/rfc2616bis/draft-lafon-rfc2616bis-04.html#intro.terminology
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I hope that works for folks.    Bernadette made some other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changes,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we're going to ask the WG for approval again before publishing.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'll
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be sending along a pointer to the new version and the diffs once
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have it passing pubrules.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>           -- Sandro
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> John S. Erickson, Ph.D.
>>> Director, Web Science Operations
>>> Tetherless World Constellation (RPI)
>>> <http://tw.rpi.edu> <olyerickson@gmail.com>
>>> Twitter & Skype: olyerickson
>>>
>
>
>
Received on Friday, 24 May 2013 21:00:29 UTC

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