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[csswg-drafts] [css-ruby] Alignment of bopomofo

From: Xidorn Quan via GitHub <sysbot+gh@w3.org>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2017 02:03:19 +0000
To: public-css-archive@w3.org
Message-ID: <issues.opened-268965726-1509069798-sysbot+gh@w3.org>
upsuper has just created a new issue for https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts:

== [css-ruby] Alignment of bopomofo ==
In [an early email](https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2015Jan/0270.html), I raised that the default value of `ruby-align` is not desirable for bopomofo:
> In the current spec, ruby-align has a default value "space-around". This value is the usual behavior for Japanese, and is fine for pinyin since it is just like Latin words. But this value is not fine for bopomofo.
>
> There are justification opportunities between bopomofo characters, just like other Chinese/Japanese characters. But if we have "ruby-align: space-around" on them, we will get an undesirable result, because bopomofo is generally centered when in annotations.
>
> Hence I propose that we add an "auto" value to ruby-align, and make it default. UA may choose a proper value for it. It may behave as "center" in Chinese locales, and "space-around" otherwise.
>
> Or alternatively, I guess we can solve it as a rule in the default style sheet like:
> ruby:lang(zh) { ruby-align: center; }

>From [the minutes of 2015 Sydney meeting](https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2015Mar/0318.html), the group somehow resolved to:
> fantasai: 1) Change initial value to center. Reset it for Japanese to be space-around in the UA stylesheet.
> fantasai: 2) Keep it as space-around, reset it for Chinese to center.
> fantasai: 3) Have a value that does custom justifications - auto - which justifies between Han and Kana, and not between bopomofo.
> ...
> RESOLVED: Either option 1 or 3 for ruby-position, at editor's discretion.

This doesn't seem to match what the spec is currently saying, actually. The current spec has `space-around` as the default value of `ruby-align`, and use default style sheet to set it to `center` for Chinese element, and I failed to figure out how do we actually get here.

In [a later reply](https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2015Mar/0330.html) from @kojiishi, he said:
> So, not 1 please.
>
> I think the question is how to justify Bopomofo, rather than the default value of ruby-align.
>
> This real-world page[2] indicates that Bopomofo is a space-delimited scripts, so I'm guessing we do not want justify between Bopomofo, similar to Korean, where Hanja justifies between letters while Hangul does not.
> 
> I would love to see if there were any real example of justified Bopomofo, but IIUC Richard has been trying that without success, even for single example.

which sounds like another solution to this problem is that, we make bopomofo not justifiable, so that we don't need any additional rule for `ruby-align` on Chinese, and all languages would just work fine with the default value `space-around` of `ruby-align`.

Please view or discuss this issue at https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/1907 using your GitHub account
Received on Friday, 27 October 2017 02:03:55 UTC

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