- From: Taylor Kendal <taylor@learningeconomy.io>
- Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2021 10:57:33 -0600
- To: Steve Capell <steve.capell@gmail.com>
- Cc: Heather Vescent <heathervescent@gmail.com>, "W3C Credentials CG (Public List)" <public-credentials@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CA+xGRY+2N6eGfs9yVc872AJuj_FCeWEp32CfQAKj9OU178yhSQ@mail.gmail.com>
Sending appreciation for this thoughtful and probing thread -- without question, it takes engineers *and* poets to create a world worth living in. I too have been wrestling with SSI <https://taykendesign.medium.com/identity-and-agency-2020-and-beyond-ee804a7e35c6> for the past few years, and this thread has added a useful new neural node to my often foggy mental map :) w/ gratitude, -Taylor https://www.learningeconomy.io On Mon, Mar 22, 2021 at 2:32 PM Steve Capell <steve.capell@gmail.com> wrote: > +1 > > The identity bit is challenging. On the other hand, I’ve never had a > problem selling the idea of verifiable credentials > > Steven Capell > Mob: 0410 437854 > > On 23 Mar 2021, at 5:37 am, Heather Vescent <heathervescent@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > I know folks on this list love to be precise in their language... ah, > gotta love the engineer's mind. But I want to provide a futurist/poet's > perspective. > > As Manu wrote, and many of us know first-hand, there are socio-cultural > issues with the term "self-sovereign." It has baggage specifically from a > western individualist libertarian perspective. Some people use > "self-sovereign" with these assumptions attached, others fight against > those assumptions. The general business consensus is that that term > (self-sovereign) is too charged, and the interpretations people bring to > it, get in the way of communicating the benefits. (See Microsoft's first > whitepaper using Decentralized Identity & aside: I would have changed the > title of the Comprehensive Guide to SSI but it was already out there in the > world.) > > "Decentralized identity" is a *better* choice. Others use "self-asserted," > I think this has some of the same socio-cultural issues that > "Self-sovereign" has. (I did a survey asking specifically this question > about a year ago, but I have not done a detailed data analysis, so these > are off the cuff comments.) IMHO, the term that will describe the > technology we are creating (SSI/DI/SA/DIDs/VCs) hasn't been coined yet. And > even more controversial, I doubt it will be coined by anyone in this > community or an early adopter. > > Why? Because we are swimming in a world of biases - biases because we are > co-creators of the vision and technology of SSI. And we are hyper technical > in this community, which is not reflective of society at large. > > I don't think this is really a big deal. Use whichever term you like with > the appropriate caveats until the defining term comes along. Maybe take a > moment to get real with yourself on why you like that particular term. A > lot of people like the unconscious/challenging authority attributions of > "self sovereign." > > IMHO, making what we are doing/creating in this community more accessible > to outsiders, with their fresh view unadulterated by our years of > philosophical discussion is what will give us clarity on the potential > impact of our work here - which may lead to a better socio-cultural verbal > identifier. > > -H > > > On Mon, Mar 22, 2021 at 9:22 AM victorsyntez <victorsyntez@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> +100 to this perspective, especially #3. Many Asian countries and a >> number of European countries consider community stability more important >> than individual freedoms. We can't expect them to agree with the notion >> that privacy and self-sovereignity of the digital identity is more >> important that government oversight of the digital identity. >> >> Victor. >> >> Sent from my Galaxy >> >> >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com> >> Date: 2021-03-22 6:32 a.m. (GMT-08:00) >> To: public-credentials@w3.org >> Subject: The "self-sovereign" problem (was: The SSI protocols challenge) >> >> On 3/21/21 11:57 PM, Adrian Gropper wrote: >> > Are we, as a community, being shy in using self-sovereign to describe >> our >> > perspective? >> >> My response below is for people that feel like the question above has an >> easy >> answer. I expect the following to be misconstrued or quoted out of >> context, >> which is sad, but here goes; everything below is said without any value >> judgements. >> >> Remember that not all nations and people of the world view >> "self-sovereign" as >> a purely positive thing. I'm not shy about using it, just very careful, >> and >> tend to avoid it as it tends to distract focused conversations. >> >> To speak to at least three overly-broad categories, self-sovereign is not >> viewed as an entirely positive thing among: >> >> 1. Authoritarian-leaning groups. >> 2. Non-authoritarian sovereign governments. >> 3. Non-western societies where the importance of the >> individual is not placed above the importance >> of the community. >> >> I don't think that anyone is here to support #1 above. #2 and #3 are why I >> tend to be careful about using the word "self-sovereign". It's useful when >> speaking to others that understand the nuance. It can be thoroughly >> confusing >> or shut down conversations with those that don't... and even when educated >> about the nuances, the message doesn't land well with the latter two >> groups. >> >> I end up doing far more damage control when the word "self-sovereign" is >> included than if I just stick to "verifiable credentials and decentralized >> identifiers". >> >> -- manu >> >> -- >> Manu Sporny - https://www.linkedin.com/in/manusporny/ >> Founder/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc. >> blog: Veres One Decentralized Identifier Blockchain Launches >> https://tinyurl.com/veres-one-launches >> >> >> > > -- > Heather Vescent <http://www.heathervescent.com/> > Co-Chair, Credentials Community Group @W3C > <https://www.w3.org/community/credentials/> > President, The Purple Tornado, Inc <https://thepurpletornado.com/> > Author, The Secret of Spies <https://amzn.to/2GfJpXH> (Available Oct 2020) > Author, The Cyber Attack Survival Manual > <https://www.amazon.com/Cyber-Attack-Survival-Manual-Apocalypse/dp/1681886545/> (revised, > Dec 2020) > Author, A Comprehensive Guide to Self Sovereign Identity > <https://ssiscoop.com/> > > @heathervescent <https://twitter.com/heathervescent> | Film Futures > <https://vimeo.com/heathervescent> | Medium > <https://medium.com/@heathervescent/> | LinkedIn > <https://www.linkedin.com/in/heathervescent/> | Future of Security Updates > <https://app.convertkit.com/landing_pages/325779/> > >
Received on Tuesday, 23 March 2021 16:57:58 UTC