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[MINUTES] W3C CCG Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force Call - 2020-07-13 12pm ET

From: W3C CCG Chairs <w3c.ccg@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 10:10:03 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <5f0f386b.1c69fb81.b1ba7.5221@mx.google.com>
Thanks to James Chartrand for scribing this week! The minutes
for this week's CCG Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force telecon are now available:

https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2020-07-13/

Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio from the meeting is available as well (link provided below).

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CCG Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force Telecon Minutes for 2020-07-13

Agenda:
  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-credentials/2020Jul/0009.html
Topics:
  1. Introductions & Reintroductions
  2. Modeling Verifiable Credentials for Education
  3. Open University, Solid, and Open Badges
Organizer:
  Heather Vescent and Wayne Chang and Kim Hamilton Duffy
Scribe:
  James Chartrand
Present:
  Kim Hamilton Duffy, James Chartrand, Laura Jaurequi, Chris 
  Winczewski, Alexander Mikroyannidis, Nate Otto, Allan Third, Jim 
  Kelly, John Domingue, Dmitri Zagidulin, David Mason, Stuart 
  Freeman, J. Philipp Schmidt, Adam Lemmon, Jim Goodell, Simone 
  Ravaoli, Andy Thomas, Irene Hernandez, Juan Caballero, Mano 
  Ramachandran, Mike Sessa, Phil Long, Loïc Jeannin, Niaz 
  Chowdhury, Benjamin Young, David Ward, Karen O'Donoghue, loveish, 
  Matt Lisle, Steve Magennis
Audio:
  https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2020-07-13/audio.ogg

Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://www.w3.org/community/credentials/join
Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://www.w3.org/accounts/request
Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://www.w3.org/community/about/agreements/cla/
Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/
James Chartrand is scribing.

Topic: Introductions & Reintroductions

Kim Hamilton Duffy:  We are moving this meeting to every other 
  week.  will update calendar invites.
  ... want to move to work item focus in addition to speakers
  ... want to work on deliverables and still have good slate of 
  speakers
  ... next meeting in two weeks will talk about Modelling VC 
  document

Topic: Modeling Verifiable Credentials for Education

Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pt-VNnjoYgl23Mlu0Tjyax5RgANPBfDijERz0SNYfSo/edit
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  We want to come up with working examples of 
  VCs.  expressing well known credentials as VC.  using ILR 
  wrapper.  come up with good set of recommendations
  ... turn over to ILR group
  ... we recommend standards, incubate
  ... I will call on Jim Kelly and Nate Otto
  ... in document two topics
Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pt-VNnjoYgl23Mlu0Tjyax5RgANPBfDijERz0SNYfSo/edit#heading=h.pqaju4ey6s0b
.. 1. Xml formatted credentials
  ... do vc support XML as we thought they would, and does it 
  make more sense to model this in json or json-ld
  ... json-ld is an RDF serialization and so to can XML. assumed 
  therefore xml was supported, but realize now there is a bit more 
  work and not as straighforward, but is doable.
  ... could be a solution for any standard expressed as XML to 
  include those in VC.
  ... if we went the XML path there is some tooling work for 
  supporting signature screens.  we would be adding a new 
  serialization.  total work is small - bookkeeping.
Jim Kelly:  Pesc board chair and consultatnt
  ... all in XML like high school transcripts
  ... see need for move to JSON
Mano Ramachandran: Guys, do you have any India and UK specific 
  numbers?
  ... we've been discussing for some time.  we have a json-ld 
  task force in place for 2 or 3 years to discuss including 
  geocode, edxchange
  ... we have been discussing adding json versions of our xML 
  standards.  xml will not disappear.
Mano Ramachandran:  Sorry, we don't. But we are overhauling our 
  connection infrastructure and will have something more 
  modern/open by end of summer [scribe assist by Kim Hamilton 
  Duffy]
  ... not a small feat.  easy to create carbon copies.  easy to 
  create carbon copies in theory,, but not sure that's what the 
  community wants
  ... Michael sessa is also on the line, and can answer quetions
Mike Sessa: Good day all...can contact me at 
  michael.sessa@pesc.org
  ... there are tools that generate json from xml so creating a 
  carbon copy is not difficult.  working on it.  working group is 
  being put together to examine that as a standard
  ... process to standard creation that requires review and 
  approval.  steps are involved.
  ... we would be able to add a json version of our pesc 
  standards, but not clear when we could do json=ld
Driven and developed by PESC Members stepping up (not PESC staff)
  ... I have begun to realize the value of json=ld for our 
  standards especially as a payload because the payload becomes 
  semantically readable
  ... is readable as json but more valuable as json-ld
  ... I know there is a desire to have pesc formats in json but 
  we don't have a timeframe but we are pulling the process to 
  together to build a workgroup and gather the pieces to create a 
  new standard
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  The question of json vs json=ld is a good 
  conversation to have in this group
  ... efforts so far have assumed linked data but that has 
  additional complexity
  ... Even if we all like it it is still good to document
Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/vc-examples/blob/master/docs/edu/university-degree-verifiable-credential.json
  ... Example 1 - course program certificate - this example shows 
  minimal education vc.  if you were designing the minimal thing 
  today that's what it would look like
  ... nate and I are teeing up discussion in a thread - what 
  terminology do we want to use?  ILR LER?
  ... how to model open badge as VC, etc.
Nate Otto:  This issue here is how do we model a claim that a 
  learner has gotten a certificate
  ... scroll to page 5, working example 1
  ... shows. a real world certificate and we want to put it in 
  language of VC
  ... VC allows any claim about someone, e.g., is someone over 
  21, favourite colour is green
  ... properties asserting about individual
Nate Otto: See the degree claim: 
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/vc-examples/blob/master/docs/edu/university-degree-verifiable-credential.json#L17
  ... line 17 - the claim is degree - this subject with DID has 
  degree
  ... claiming degree is not a common claim
  ... of all the learning claims in your history very few are 
  degrees
  ... Is there a common claim type to represent achievement of 
  educational goal
  ... What is the core concept?
  ... An achievement level that has criteria and an issuer.  like 
  open badges class - as set of properties - criteria, image, 
  assessed by issuer
Phil Long: Is the problem Nate is discussing about a defined 
  achievement represents a poverty of structured learning outcomes 
  in the higher ed community?
  ... What does this mean - open badges calls it a badge - this 
  assertion is about this.  Idea is - 'has achieved'
  ... Scroll to page 7 - 'holds' means learner holds credential
  ... A term like hasAchieved should be used.
  ... Working example 5 is same thing - hasAchieved.  same idea 
  except competency is not necessarily defined by issuer of 
  credential itself.  could be a shared def across issuers
Allan Third: "HasDemonstrated" seems slightly more general?
  ... What is this idea of a hasAchieved claim?
  ... I think it has more power than something like 'degree'
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  I agree.  should spend time.
.. Time to turn to main topic.  People from Open University to 
  talk about their deployment with solid and open badges

Topic: Open University, Solid, and Open Badges

John Domingue:  Joint presentation but colleagues having trouble 
  getting on call.
  ... Date is important - accreditation is almost like an event.
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Voip noise
  ... Certain credentials have a lifespan.
  ... Now, to get into talk - going to overview our work at open 
  u.  we have been looking at blockchain accreditation.
  ... This is a set of highlights of our activities, especially 
  around covid-19
Phil Long: @John D's comment is important about a date as in most 
  higher ed achievements they are in a defined context based on 
  when they entered a degree pathway. The rules for achievements 
  are bound by the contract at the time of their declared major.
  ... Slide 1 - there is a URL to our main web site.
Allan Third: 
  https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1q8mDa9QjSTirtZxiTVm6p83_6N3rYXKaT_drntzBTrs/
John Domingue: 
  https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1q8mDa9QjSTirtZxiTVm6p83_6N3rYXKaT_drntzBTrs/edit?usp=sharing
  ... Slide 2 - overview of content
  ... We have a strong belief in social justice.  'open' means 
  you don't need any existing quals.
  ... Some students have studied for a decade.  Something like 
  20K disabled.
  ... Slide 3 - teaching at scale
  ... We have a Free learning platform
Phil Long: If you are not speaking (e.g., typing) please mute 
  your mic.
  ... we founded a mooc with 10 million registered learners.
  ... we co-produce a lot of radio and tv programs with BSc.
  ... Slide 4 - lifelong learning
  ... small chunks of learning supported by accreditation
  ... Slide 5 - handing to Allan third
Allan Third:  Move to decentralization is important
  ... solid is a linked data platform started by Tim Berners lee.
  ... turns web applications into views on data
  ... Data is held by individual
  ... Slide 6
  ... You keep your data in data pods.  you permit applications 
  to access your data to support what you want rather than what the 
  application wants
  ... The linked data platform, solid concept, is linked data 
  focused and friendly
  ... See a lot of discussion about personal data.  go to slide 7
  ... You can gain value from personal data but may have 
  incentive to change it, to edit it.  if other people are going to 
  give you value based on your personal data, you have to be able 
  to verify it.
  ... you should be able to access and host it but also prove 
  that the qualifications you derive are valid
  ... this is why we have been looking at blockchain to show your 
  proofs haven't been edited
  ... Quals and work history, cv - services can be built on top.
  ... Can prove to others that you haven't tampered with vc.
  ... slide 9 - generic architecture - all purpose personal data 
  store.  using solid to store data, blockchains to prove with VCs. 
   Implement VC model on top of solid architecture.
  ... Pass to alex
Alexander Mikroyannidis:  Will present one of our most recent 
  projects
Loïc Jeannin: @Kimhd: I'm already muted, that's interesting
  ... slide 11 - creation, piloting and evaluation of 
  decentralized solutions for quals.
  ... ten partners - academic orgs and gov agencies.
  ... slide 12 - pilots
  ... slide 13 - lifelong learning pilot led by OU
  ... slide 14 - main stakeholders
  ... slide 15 main use case - personal portfolio of learner
  ... slide 16 Recommendations based on learner's skills
  ... Slide 18 Scoping landscape, understanding needs, 
  consultation workshops
  ... Slide 19 Findings
Phil Long: +Q to mention is the personal eportfolio a generic 
  analogy to a digital wallet?
  ... We are now moving on to next phase.  Developing 
  decentralized solutions for lifelong learner
John Domingue:  Skills are important.  people study to improve 
  job or get a job.
  ... There is a new eurpean standard that represents set number 
  of hours of learning.
  ... Want to produce new accreditation for computing
  ... There may be a mismatch in skills
  ... Competence shows that a person can carry out work without 
  supervision
  ... Slide 21
  ... Slide 22
  ... Slide 23 Gateway Descriptions
  ... slide 24 Site for Gateway Badges
  ... Slide 25 Gateway Badge Alignments
Niaz Chowdhury:  Presenting covid 19 system
  ... Slide 26 Covid-19 Antibody test / vaccination certification
  ... Builds on prior work, wanted to develop a smart phone app
  ... Slide 27 Timeline of Antibody Test / Vac Certification
Kim Hamilton Duffy: All: apologies that I got this session 
  started late. Feel free to drop while we wrap up
Kim Hamilton Duffy: I'm having a hard time hearing the current 
  speaker
  ... Slide 29
  ... Slide 33 - Main contributions
  ... We want to have a decentralized privacy preserving 
  platform.
  ... We have been using our system for real students in UK.
  ... Our components are SOLID - to give learners control over 
  data, including anayltics.
  ... Started using open badges now using VC.
  ... Use hashes on blockchain for verification
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Slide 19 - question from Phil Long, is 
  portfolio like wallet?
John Domingue:  Portfolio is layer over SOLID
Phil Long: Sorry - hung up before I could get the question out. 
  I'll follow up with John D. separately.
  ... Slide 15 - semantic matching between skills you have and 
  skills we are mining from jobs
Laura Jaurequi: Thank you!
Mano Ramachandran: @Kimhd thank you :)
Received on Wednesday, 15 July 2020 17:10:18 UTC

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