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Re: [MINUTES] W3C Credentials CG Call - 2018-10-16 12pm ET

From: Snorre Lothar von Gohren Edwin <snorre@diwala.io>
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2018 16:31:12 +0100
Message-ID: <CALoeRyY9Qc2JZsnW5sE+dsspP7VNsAu0R3M2vZ0bDBiRnjYULw@mail.gmail.com>
To: kim@learningmachine.com
Cc: Credentials CG <public-credentials@w3.org>
I see alot of discussion about communication here. We in Diwala are working
on a skill identity service backed by current identity providers but using
did and vc's as core layer.

We are based in Norway and Uganda.
We are considering to start a discussion group, read meetup, around
decentralized identity in both countries, starting with Norway.

Any experience from the value of that?
And any interest from anyone nearby to come join one of the events?

And anyone with any experience in engaging with the government around this?

Many questions, but hope for some insightful answers

On Mon, Nov 5, 2018, 04:10 <kim@learningmachine.com> wrote:

> Thanks to Andrew Hughes for scribing this week! The minutes
> for this week's Credentials CG telecon are now available:
>
> https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2018-10-16/
>
> Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
> Audio from the meeting is available as well (link provided below).
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Credentials CG Telecon Minutes for 2018-10-16
>
> Agenda:
>
> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-credentials/2018Oct/0049.html
> Topics:
>   1. Introductions and Reintroductions
>   2. Announcements & Reminders
>   3. Progress on Current Action Items
>   4. Work Items
>   5. TPAC Planning
>   6. Feedback on charter
> Organizer:
>   Christopher Allen and Joe Andrieu and Kim Hamilton Duffy
> Scribe:
>   Andrew Hughes
> Present:
>   Mike Lodder, Manu Sporny, Heather Vescent, Ganesh Annan, Dmitri
>   Zagidulin, Christopher Allen, Jeff Orgel, Dan Burnett, Bohdan
>   Andriyiv, Lucas Parker, Ken Ebert, Kim Hamilton Duffy, Dave
>   Longley, Joe Andrieu, Andrew Hughes, Ted Thibodeau, Nate Otto,
>   Matt Stone, Lionel Wolberger
> Audio:
>   https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2018-10-16/audio.ogg
>
> Christopher Allen: Voip 19a is ChristopherA
> Jeff Orgel: Present +
> Andrew Hughes: Scribe achughes
> Andrew Hughes is scribing.
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Reviews the IPR rules and how to queue to
>   speak
> Nate Otto: Hi, @manu. Glad to be here.
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Nominates Heather to be reintroduced!
>
> Topic: Introductions and Reintroductions
>
> Heather Vescent:  Runs a strategic consultancy, in the tech
>   industry 20+ years, futurist. Published a comprehensive SSI
>   research report - ask for details.
> Heather Vescent:  SSI similar to previous digital asset grid work
>   at SWIFT
>
> Topic: Announcements & Reminders
>
> Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/announcements/
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Two events next week
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  TPAC in Lyon and IIW in Mountain View
> Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://www.w3.org/2018/10/TPAC/
> Kim Hamilton Duffy: http://iiw.idcommons.net
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:
>   https://www.w3.org/Security/strong-authentication-and-identity-workshop/
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  W3C workshop on strong authentication and
>   Identity December 10, 11 in Redmond
>
> Topic: Progress on Current Action Items
>
> Manu Sporny:  A good forum to discuss DIDs prior to establishing
>   DID WG
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:
>
> https://github.com/w3c-ccg/community/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22action+item%22
> Manu Sporny:  Workshop is invitation-only - must submit a
>   position statement - group will be selected based on submissions
> Joe Andrieu:  For W3C workshop - should the application survey
>   include the position statement? or send the position separately?
> Manu Sporny:  Cover your bases and send a separate position
>   statement in addition to the survey
> Joe Andrieu:  Does the workshop need more publicity?
> Manu Sporny:  Can you resend the 'position paragraphs' item? I
>   missed the details. [scribe assist by Lionel Wolberger]
> Manu Sporny:  These are specialist workshops, technical,
>   standards focused, not general attendace. So not really
>   appropriate for a newsletter.
> Lionel Wolberger: Is it IIW only?
> Lionel Wolberger: OK, but it's at Mountain View, (not Lyon)
>   correct?
> Manu Sporny:  Workshop is open to anyone, but deep into strong
>   authentication topics. W3C workshop is in Redmond
> Joe Andrieu: It's in Seattle in December
> Lionel Wolberger: Sorry, missed the place of the workshop.
>   THANKS!
> Lionel Wolberger: Got it. Thanks.
> Dave Longley: 10-11Th
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:
>
> https://github.com/w3c-ccg/community/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22action+item%22
> Redmond is near Seattle
> Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://github.com/w3c-ccg/community/issues/2
> Nate Otto: Seems like the whole audio bridge is having some
>   trouble. Hopefully it recovers.
> Joe Andrieu: =(
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Spec text video editing
> Lucas Parker: Better now
> Nate Otto: Getting better!
> Joe Andrieu: A bit better now
> Andrew Hughes:  Bohdan has stepped up and edited the video
> Andrew Hughes:  Andrew wants to view the edited video (60
>   minutes) and will circulate the link this week
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Work items
>
> Topic: Work Items
>
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:
>   https://github.com/w3c-ccg/community/blob/master/work_items.md
> Manu Sporny:  DID WG Prep - the DID Primer docs got a few updates
> Kim Hamilton Duffy: Thanks Bohdan (re video)
> Dan Burnett: Manu can you drop the link to the new primer?
> Manu Sporny:  We have really good support - 81 orgs responded,
>   ~60 are commercial orgs - most are supportive
> Manu Sporny:  Support to create a new DID WG
> Kim Hamilton Duffy: DID Primer:
>   https://w3c-ccg.github.io/did-primer/
> Manu Sporny:  The use cases are representative of the ones the
>   orgs are interested in.
> Manu Sporny:  Where can we see the list of 80+ companies
>   supporting the DID as a WG? [scribe assist by Lionel Wolberger]
> Mike Lodder: When are we going to finalize those PRs?
> Manu Sporny:  Next up for the DID Spec is LD signatures, COSE,
>   JWT discussions
> Manu Sporny:  DID Spec and Use cases need to be cleaned up a bit
>   in prep for the WG startup (assuming it goes)
> Manu Sporny:  The supporting companies list is only for W3C
>   members - confidential
> Mike Lodder: Yes
> Manu Sporny: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/did-wg-proposal/
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  DID PR finalization - discussion about
>   having deep-dive calls soon. Focus was on TPAC prep.
> Mike Lodder: :Thumbs_up
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Mike and Drummond will be talking together
>   at IIW to resolve big issues
> Manu Sporny: Member-confidential list of supporters of W3C DID WG
>   Proposal:
>
> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ac-forum/2018OctDec/att-0007/W3C_DID_WG_Proposal_-_W3C_Member_Confidential.pdf
> Mike Lodder:  So, there’s no movement planned prior to IIW?
> Manu Sporny: +1 To process DID spec changes.
> Mike Lodder:  Probably won’t be able to resolve all PRs at IIW -
>   so should we use this call to discuss?
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Yes, some of it can be on this call - and
>   also separate deep-dive calls
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  These would be official ccg calls
>
> Topic: TPAC Planning
>
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Dc6VKwlMXcqQPy_viehxWqXHFkLYltLO9yaVapa2svs/edit
> Lucas Parker: I can view it
> Ken Ebert: I can't access it.
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Adjusted the permissions on the document for
>   review
> Ken Ebert: That worked.
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  The interesting presentations related to
>   DIDs are called out in the schedule document
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Tuesday - the big one is the 2 hour
>   Credentials CG meeting - slide deck needs lots of work and who
>   will present it
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  The structure of the CCG session: people
>   will be walking in and wanting to hear the overview of the work
>   and some light details
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Need to avoid getting derailed - so need a
>   firm schedule of topics in the ccg meeting
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Slide 9 has candidate items for deeper
>   diving
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Need presenters for the items
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Slide 8 has the full list of work items in
>   the ccg - Slide 9 is the focus topics
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Need volunteers to present the ‘shallow’
>   deep dive topics
> Manu Sporny:  Should include Self-Sovereign data storage -
>   Microsoft Identity Hub / Data Hub
> Dmitri Zagidulin: +1
> Lionel Wolberger: I volunteer for a shallow-deep-dive
> Manu Sporny:  Will be discussions on Digital Verifiaction Specs
> Lionel Wolberger: Datamin is my favorite topic!
> Lionel Wolberger:  Volunteers to do a shallow-deep-dive on data
>   minimization - will be at TPAC
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Suggests 2-3 slides for each ‘deep dive’
>   topics
> Lionel Wolberger: Yes, I will be at TPAC.
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Still need a person to present (manu
>   volunteers)
> Joe -- My W3C creds aren't working to see that DID proposal
>   member list, do I need to request access?
> Manu Sporny: Chrisboscolo: No, more than likely you're not the AC
>   Rep for your org?
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  TPAC Wednesday - breakout sessions
> Ah, yes that is truu
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Most important: the W3C DID Working Group
>   session that Manu is running
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  The second breakout that we will propose is
>   Joe’s “Roadmap for Decentralized Identity"
> Thx!
> Manu Sporny:  Ccg needs to keep focused on a few topics to avoid
>   slow progress and dissipation
> Manu Sporny:  E.g. the way we are doing signatures in VC and DID
>   Spec is not locked down - commercial deployers need this to be
>   locked down
> Manu Sporny:  Ccg stil needs to decide on what work should be
>   next
> Christopher Allen:  Still lots of ccg items to work on - such as
>   deep dives into individual methods - the DID WG wont necessarily
>   work on these things
> Manu Sporny:  The natural place to work on method spec is the ccg
> Dan Burnett:  Verifiable Credentials update - lots of people at
>   W3C are not aware of the vc work at all - has been quiet, people
>   not sure of status
> Dan Burnett:  Might consider doing a separate breakout on
>   verifiable claims - as long as it does not compete with did wg
> Christopher Allen:  Suggests that the verifiable claims primer
>   really helps people engage
> Heather Vescent: Me/ sounds like this is a press/promotions
>   problem...
> Christopher Allen:  The ccg could hold some of the primers
> Matt Stone: Heathervescent yes re: press/promotion challenge.
> Lionel Wolberger: All this socializing at TPAC, would a T-Shirt
>   help? I know DIDs and VCs, and all I got was this lousy t-shirt
> Manu Sporny:  Dan - is the sense that the W3C membership is
>   unaware? or the general public?
> Heather Vescent: If only there was someone in the community who
>   was good doing that? ;-)
> Lionel Wolberger: I would love a T-shirt saying Data
>   Minimization, Selective Disclosure, Progressive Trust
> Matt Stone:  During a meeting last week - unlike the ccg work on
>   DIDs, there’s less blogging and public work on verifiable
>   credentials - so vcs are a bit under the radar
> Matt Stone:  The VC WG needs to keep public visibility of the
>   data model in mind
> Lionel Wolberger: Maybe with a binary joke: Ask me about these
>   110 words: Data Minimization, Selective Disclosure, Progressive
>   Trust
> Christopher Allen:  VC WG - concurs that visibility might be
>   lower - but verifiable credentials are the next big piece of work
>   after DIDs
> Mike Lodder: Protocol
> Manu Sporny: +1 To mike-lodder
> Matt Stone: +1 Protocol
> Christopher Allen:  Should map out the schedule of which topics
>   ccg might work on when
> Manu Sporny:  W3C staff probably want more blog post material -
>   problem might be that the proof of concepts work are not public
> Manu Sporny:  There’s lots of traction with verifiable
>   credentials and DIDs - but it’s not obvious from the outside
> Manu Sporny:  When the verifiable credentials WG ends (spring
>   2019) - we can make lots of noise about the work
> Matt Stone: Manu can you post a link to that news/announcement?
> Kim Hamilton Duffy: Nate Otto and I will be able to make noise
>   about VCs via EDU/OCC use cases, and our work is public
> Manu Sporny:  US Government says that DIDs/Verifiable Credentials
>   are necessary to do trade with US
> Christopher Allen: Many, URL?
> Heather Vescent: CBP has said they are using DIDs and VCs are a
>   part of the next generation solution. If you want to trade with
>   the United States, you will have to use DIDs and VCs.
> Manu Sporny:  There were 35+ press releases around this
> Manu Sporny:  The timing of spec development versus press
>   awareness is normally disjointed
> Manu Sporny:  Next-generation-evolution of specs like verifiable
>   credentials typically goes back into community groups (like the
>   ccg)
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Time check
> Christopher Allen: And we should add that VC transition to CCG
>   slides
> Matt Stone:  Noted to the W3C staff - the charter of the WG is
>   constrained to only the data model - but the magic sucess
>   ingredient is DIDs and Protocols
> Matt Stone:  So the VC work has to be told in the whole, not as
>   the atomic parts
> Dan Burnett:  The Verifiable Credentials WG will be discussing
>   their charter at TPAC - there are continuation options
> Matt Stone: Hopefully you'll all be in that discussion :)
> Heather Vescent:  Regarding promotion of the topics - many of us
>   are technical - press and others take control over the narrative
>   if this community does not put the story out there
> Heather Vescent:  This community doesn’t like financially
>   supporting non-technical work
> Matt Stone: +1 To heathervescent commentary about supporting the
>   megaphone
> Manu Sporny: Perhaps we can do bounties for marketing, PR?
> Heather Vescent:  For example the SSI report is a big piece of
>   work that supports things like PR and Marketing and outreach
> Kim Hamilton Duffy: Amen, we absolutely need to be communicating
>   our work in compelling, human readable ways.
> Heather Vescent:  Wants this community to control the narrative
> Manu Sporny: +1 -- So, we need to figure out how to fund that....
>   the vehicle.
> Christopher Allen:  Heathervescent has floated the idea of
>   open-sourcing the SSI report if there is sufficient financial
>   support
> Heather Vescent:  Has privately floated the idea of bounties -
>   also creating updates to the SSI report, podcasts, other media -
>   needs financial support
>
> Topic: Feedback on charter
>
> Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://github.com/w3c-ccg/did-wg-charter
> Heather Vescent: @Bigbluehat yes that is the theory.
> Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/did-wg-proposal/
> Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/did-wg-proposal/
> Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/did-wg-charter/
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  The second link is the correct one - DID WG
>   Proposal that will be discussed at TPAC
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  The did-wg-charter url is the correct one
> Joe Andrieu:  There were 2 issues he knows of
> Joe Andrieu:  ‘Machines’ cannot ‘own’ anything - the first
>   paragraph states that machines can own DIDS
> Joe Andrieu:  There is a github issue on this
> Dan Burnett: +1 To control
> Manu Sporny:  Thought that all the ‘owner’ statements were
>   replaced by ‘controller’
> Kim Hamilton Duffy: Machines don't own things:
>   https://github.com/w3c-ccg/did-wg-charter/issues/4
> Manu Sporny:  The web of things and IoT community wanted ‘owner’
>   in there specfically
> Lionel Wolberger: LOL
> Heather Vescent: Love that Manu - Machines are people too.
> Lionel Wolberger: Don't put the car before the horse.
> Manu Sporny:  JoeAndrieu was OK with change to ‘controls’ and
>   that should satisfy the WoT group
> Kim Hamilton Duffy: DID resolution:
>   https://github.com/w3c-ccg/did-wg-charter/issues/2
> Dan Burnett: This has always been the point:  we are talking
>   about identifiers, not identities.  No ownership, just control
>   over.
> Christopher Allen:  We need to communicate the ‘control’
>   preference over ‘owner’ words
> Christopher Allen:  Ccg needs to communicate the reasons for this
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Marcus’ DID Resolution - needs a separate
>   section for this
> Manu Sporny:  You were looking for a volunteer, I am not clear
>   what it was for... [scribe assist by Lionel Wolberger]
> Dave Longley: Maybe more language about how DIDs are identifiers
>   that are designed to better express independent existence of
>   individuals, orgs, machines, etc .... instead of strongly binding
>   them to unrelated services (that might be better in the spec than
>   the charter though)
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Will follow up by email
> Lionel Wolberger: Thanks Kim!
> Meeting adjourned
> Matt Stone: Bye all
>
>
>
>
> --


*Snorre Lothar von Gohren Edwin*
Co-Founder & CTO, Diwala
+47 411 611  <+47%20404%2061%20926>94
www.diwala.io
Received on Monday, 5 November 2018 15:31:54 UTC

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