- From: Loretta Guarino Reid <lorettaguarino@google.com>
- Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 16:36:53 -0700
- To: "Jim Thatcher" <jim@jimthatcher.com>
- Cc: public-comments-WCAG20@w3.org
Dear Jim Thatcher , Thank you for your comments on the 2006 Last Call Working Draft of the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 2.0 (WCAG 2.0 http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-WCAG20-20060427/). We appreciate the interest that you have taken in these guidelines. We apologize for the delay in getting back to you. We received many constructive comments, and sometimes addressing one issue would cause us to revise wording covered by an earlier issue. We therefore waited until all comments had been addressed before responding to commenters. This message contains the comments you submitted and the resolutions to your comments. Each comment includes a link to the archived copy of your original comment on http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-comments-wcag20/, and may also include links to the relevant changes in the updated WCAG 2.0 Public Working Draft at http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-WCAG20-20070517/. PLEASE REVIEW the decisions for the following comments and reply to us by 7 June at public-comments-WCAG20@w3.org to say whether you are satisfied with the decision taken. Note that this list is publicly archived. We also welcome your comments on the rest of the updated WCAG 2.0 Public Working Draft by 29 June 2007. We have revised the guidelines and the accompanying documents substantially. A detailed summary of issues, revisions, and rationales for changes is at http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2007/05/change-summary.html . Please see http://www.w3.org/WAI/ for more information about the current review. Thank you, Loretta Guarino Reid, WCAG WG Co-Chair Gregg Vanderheiden, WCAG WG Co-Chair Michael Cooper, WCAG WG Staff Contact On behalf of the WCAG Working Group ---------------------------------------------------------- Comment 1: Source: http://www.w3.org/mid/20060524141745.36CE0DAFC5@w3c4-bis.w3.org (Issue ID: LC-587) Part of Item: Comment Type: TE Comment (including rationale for proposed change): I am doing final copy editing of a book chapter on forms. I had talked about how clear the January version of WCAG20 was about forms: SC 4.1.3 The label of each user interface control in the Web content that accepts input from the user can be programmatically determined and is explicitly associated with the control. But now that has apparently been replaced by: SC 4.1.2 For all user interface components, the name and role can be programmatically determined, values that can be set by the user can be programmatically set, and notification of changes to these items is available to user agents, including assistive technologies. The problem is that 4.1.2 is absolutely inadequate. The \"Role\" of text input field is \"text input\"; the name could be \"keyinput\". 4.1.2 is basic software accessibility - leaving to the AT the process of figuring out what the prompt (label) is. I just talked with John (who sounds terrific) and he pointed out that - 1.3.1 Information and relationships conveyed through presentation can be programmatically determined, and notification of changes to these is available to user agents, including assistive technologies. Served the same purpose as 4.1.3 - I agree. But it is abstract. It requires interpretation. With the Last Call version of WCAG 2.0 there is no success criterion that specifically addresses labeling forms and I think that is a very serious mistake. Proposed Change: Please reinstate 4.1.3. ---------------------------- Response from Working Group: ---------------------------- The WG feels this requirement is properly covered under 4.1.2 and did not wish to reinstate a SC that would be redundant with that. However, we agree that it's difficult for users to understand that form labeling is part of 4.1.2. We have added a failure and an advisory technique to SC 1.3.1 and 4.1.2: F68: Failure of 1.3.1 and 1.4.2 due to the association of label and user interface controls not being programmatically determinable Providing labels for text input or item selection form controls (future link) ---------------------------------------------------------- Comment 2: Source: http://www.w3.org/mid/20060605135513.9D89ABDA8@w3c4.w3.org (Issue ID: LC-713) Part of Item: Comment Type: GE Comment (including rationale for proposed change): I had a talk with John Slatin about 4.2.2 on 5.21.2006. It is clear that what he was looking for: \"The goal was to permit the user to explore the context without needing to navigate away from the link.\" This is an admirable and very understandable user goal. But I think it is impossible to build this requirement build into a success criterion. Using a phrase like "Programmatically associated" without defining it – doesn't solve the problem. Screen Reader/2 for OS/2 had a key command that allowed the user to "save the current state" do any other command, and return to the saved state when that completed or was stopped. So the goal of allowing the user to explore the context is AT specific, which you mentioned, Loretta. The point is that there is nothing structural about that exploration. Nothing related to the current link. You could "push the state, and read "line" 123 and be back where you were. You could read the whole page and be back at your link. John Slatin mentioned http://slashdot.com as an example. In this case the context is the text above, not a paragraph; good context is the previous heading. But with current AT – I think –you can't read the previous heading without loosing your place – or the previous paragraph. There are several different situations on Slashdot.com where generic links relate to a previous text which is not a paragraph tag – just a div. However, with Slashdot (as John pointed out in our conversation), when you move to the Read more link from the JAWS links list JAWS announces the heading which is the (or a) context for the link – that's cool. Furthermore, even though JAWS isn't as sophisticated as Screen Reader/2 (!) you can accomplish the same kind of thing with PlaceMarkers. When you are on the link, press CTRL K to set a temporary place marker, Press SHIFT H for previous heading, Press K to return to the PlaceMarker, and you are back at the link. So the context is read without loosing your place. One of my favorite examples of this problem area is the Priceline.com hotel listing - http://tinyurl.com/qh9o2. There is a framed block for each hotel, of maybe 30 hotels. Each hotel block has 7 generic links, Choose, More, Features, etc., all concern the hotel at the top of the block. Priceline uses the title attributes to resolve this but we all know how well that is supported – the issue here is not about the title attributes – The issue is that there is no sensible "Programmatic association" of the hotel title to the generic links. For each generic link there is a (different) technique for accessing the hotel name – using a PlaceMarker. For Choose, use next table cell (CTRL ALT RIGHT ARROW). For More, Features, ... Map, use current table cell,(CTRL ALT UP ARROW), For the last link go up two cells. Combine these with the CTRL K and K combination, and one is able to explore context with out loosing the link. The reason I am saying all this is I believe that there is nothing special about these examples. I think it is always going to be possible to find a combination of keys that will provide context for a "generic link." And I think there will be no general sequence that will work in all or even many cases. (How about setting a place marker and moving back (up arrow) in the document? It fails for the Choose link in the Priceline example.) In the same way as the Priceline and Slashdot examples, the first and third Examples of Success Criterion 2.4.4 don't necessarily have any programmatic connection to the link itself. The important information could just be in a div – not the same paragraph, maybe not the same table cell. But WCAG 2.0 calls these success! I think that 2.4.4 should be eliminated because there is no definition of what is wanted, and I think what is wanted will always be available anyway. Proposed Change: Remove SC 2.4.4. ---------------------------- Response from Working Group: ---------------------------- We have reworded both SC 2.4.8 and SC 2.4.4 to clarify the differences between the two as well as the sufficient techniques that meet them. They now read: 2.4.4 The purpose of each link can be determined from the link text and its programmatically determined link context. 2.4.8 The purpose of each link can be identified from the link text. where "Programmatically determined link context" is defined as: programmatically determined link context 1. Additional information that can be programmatically determined from relationships with a link; and 2. can be extracted, combined with the link text, and presented to users in different modalities. Example 1: Screen readers provide commands to read the current sentence when focus is on a link. Example 2: Examples of information that can be extracted, combined with link text, and presented to users in different modalities include text that is in the same sentence, paragraph, list, or table cell as the link or in a table header cell that is associated with the table cell that contains the link.
Received on Thursday, 17 May 2007 23:37:14 UTC