- From: Loretta Guarino Reid <lorettaguarino@google.com>
- Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 16:32:12 -0700
- To: "Christophe Strobbe" <Christophe.Strobbe@esat.kuleuven.be>
- Cc: public-comments-WCAG20@w3.org
Dear Christophe Strobbe , Thank you for your comments on the 2006 Last Call Working Draft of the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 2.0 (WCAG 2.0 http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-WCAG20-20060427/). We appreciate the interest that you have taken in these guidelines. We apologize for the delay in getting back to you. We received many constructive comments, and sometimes addressing one issue would cause us to revise wording covered by an earlier issue. We therefore waited until all comments had been addressed before responding to commenters. This message contains the comments you submitted and the resolutions to your comments. Each comment includes a link to the archived copy of your original comment on http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-comments-wcag20/, and may also include links to the relevant changes in the updated WCAG 2.0 Public Working Draft at http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-WCAG20-20070517/. PLEASE REVIEW the decisions for the following comments and reply to us by 7 June at public-comments-WCAG20@w3.org to say whether you are satisfied with the decision taken. Note that this list is publicly archived. We also welcome your comments on the rest of the updated WCAG 2.0 Public Working Draft by 29 June 2007. We have revised the guidelines and the accompanying documents substantially. A detailed summary of issues, revisions, and rationales for changes is at http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2007/05/change-summary.html . Please see http://www.w3.org/WAI/ for more information about the current review. Thank you, Loretta Guarino Reid, WCAG WG Co-Chair Gregg Vanderheiden, WCAG WG Co-Chair Michael Cooper, WCAG WG Staff Contact On behalf of the WCAG Working Group ---------------------------------------------------------- Comment 1: Source: http://www.w3.org/mid/20060622133646.2D403DAF01@w3c4-bis.w3.org (Issue ID: LC-879) Part of Item: Comment Type: question Comment (including rationale for proposed change): Please define or point to criteria for \"high inter-rater reliability\". This is important for developing evaluation procedures based on WCAG 2.0 (especially evaluation procedures that can be repeated with the same results for the same content, although, after reading http://www.socialresearchmethods.net/kb/reltypes.htm and http://www2.chass.ncsu.edu/garson/pa765/reliab.htm, inter-rater reliability is not the same thing as test-retest reliability). There was an action item for research on inter-rater reliability (http://www.w3.org/2005/04/27-wai-wcag-minutes.html#item02) but I don\'t know what came out of it. Proposed Change: ---------------------------- Response from Working Group: ---------------------------- Inter-rater reliability is the extent to which multiple evaluators of a task or performance give identical ratings. This is often measured by Cohen's kappa, where 0 indicates agreement due to chance alone and 1 indicating perfect agreement. See http://www.measurementexperts.org/instrument/term_pocket_terms.asp Test-retest refers to the ability of the same person to come up with the same results each time they rate something. Inter-rater reliability is a tougher standard than test-retest. We no longer use this term in WCAG 2.0. Instead, we have revised this section to say "The same results should be obtained with a high level of confidence when people who understand how people with different types of disabilities use the Web test the same content." ---------------------------------------------------------- Comment 2: Source: http://www.w3.org/mid/20060622134220.19D64DAF01@w3c4-bis.w3.org (Issue ID: LC-880) Part of Item: Comment Type: substantive Comment (including rationale for proposed change): Item 2 of optional components of a conformance claim appears to add little useful information to a conformance claim because it is a subset of the baseline information (item 5 of required components of a conformance claim). It seems more useful to me to state which technologies in the baseline are not used or relied upon. Proposed Change: Remove item 2 of optional components of a conformance claim or replace it with a list of technologies that are in the baseline but not relied upon. ---------------------------- Response from Working Group: ---------------------------- The list of technologies relied upon is useful for users who may prefer particular technologies. It is easier to search for a listed technology than to search for technologies that are in a documented list of accessibility-supported technologies, but are not in the relied upon technologies. Documented lists of accessibility-supported web technologies (previously referred to as baselines) may include many more technologies than are used on any given web site. For instance, there may be many different multimedia formats included in such a list. We wish to avoid the situation in which a web page that contains no multimedia would need to list all of them. ---------------------------------------------------------- Comment 3: Source: http://www.w3.org/mid/20060622134616.A1538DAF01@w3c4-bis.w3.org (Issue ID: LC-881) Part of Item: Comment Type: substantive Comment (including rationale for proposed change): Item 4 of \'optional components of a conformance claim\' reads: \"A list of user agents that the content has been tested on. This *should* include assistive technologies\" (emphasis added). \'Should\' is not a very useful verb in optional information: it boils down to a non-requirement within a non-requirement. Proposed Change: Replace item 4 of \'optional components of a conformance claim\' with: \"A list of user agents, including assistive technologies, that the content has been tested on.\" ---------------------------- Response from Working Group: ---------------------------- The draft has been updated as proposed. ---------------------------------------------------------- Comment 4: Source: http://www.w3.org/mid/20060622134837.D8B26DAF01@w3c4-bis.w3.org (Issue ID: LC-882) Part of Item: Comment Type: substantive Comment (including rationale for proposed change): The note to SC 3.1.2 reads: \"This requirement does not apply to individual words or phrases that have become part of the primary language of the content.\": this is a problem for foreign words in a passage or quote that is not in the primary language. This wording was introduced in the June 2006 Working Draft; before that, it read \"This does not include use of foreign words in text where such usage is a standard extension of the language,\" but I believe this was changed because the term \"foreign\" was considered problematic. Proposed Change: Rephrase the note to: \"This requirement does not apply to individual words or phrases that have become part of the language of the immediately neighbouring text.\" ---------------------------- Response from Working Group: ---------------------------- We have revised the note to read, "This requirement does not apply to individual words. It also does not apply to proper names, to technical terms or to phrases that have become part of the language of the context in which they are used." ---------------------------------------------------------- Comment 5: Source: http://www.w3.org/mid/20060622135006.5EF9933201@kearny.w3.org (Issue ID: LC-883) Part of Item: Comment Type: substantive Comment (including rationale for proposed change): SC 3.1.4 reads: \" A mechanism for finding the expanded form of abbreviations is available.\" Since technique G102 (Providing the expansion or explanation of an abbreviation) devotes a lot of attention to situations where you don\'t need to provide an expansion, but e.g. an explanation, this SC could be reworded as \"A mechanism for finding the meaning of abbreviations is available.\" Providing the expansion is only one way to provide the meaning. Proposed Change: Reword SC 3.1.4 to: \"A mechanism for finding the meaning of abbreviations is available.\" ---------------------------- Response from Working Group: ---------------------------- We have updated the success criterion to read, "A mechanism for finding the expanded form or meaning of abbreviations is available." ---------------------------------------------------------- Comment 6: Source: http://www.w3.org/mid/20060628180220.AF9E733201@kearny.w3.org (Issue ID: LC-1406) Part of Item: Intent Comment Type: substantive Comment (including rationale for proposed change): I have been working on a Dutch translation of the guidelines and noticed that \"legal transactions\" is hard to translate into Dutch in a way that rings a bell with readers; I translated it as if it meant \"transactions recognized by the law\". Other translators may also have this problem because \"legal transactions\" in the SC text is not clarified in the intent of HtM 2.5.3. If it means \"transactions where the person incurs a legally binding obligation or benefit (a marriage license, a stock trade (financial and legal), a will, a loan, adoption, signing up for the army, a contract of any type, etc), please clarify this. Proposed Change: Add the following to the intent of HtM 2.5.3: \"Legal transactions are transactions where someone incurs a legally binding obligation or benefit, for example a marriage license, a stock trade (financial and legal), a will, a loan, adoption, signing up for the army, a contract of any type, etcetera.\" ---------------------------- Response from Working Group: ---------------------------- We have revised the success criterion (now SC 3.3.3) to read, "For forms that cause legal commitments or financial transactions to occur, that modify or delete user-controllable data in data storage systems, or that submit test responses, at least one of the following is true..." We have also added a definition for legal commitments. ---------------------------------------------------------- Comment 7: Source: http://www.w3.org/mid/20060817170452.F420113AB0@seamus.w3.org (Issue ID: LC-1470) Part of Item: Comment Type: substantive Comment (including rationale for proposed change): The definition of Web unit is still ambiguous. (1) If an HTML document (home.htm) has various linked stylesheets (one for screen, one for print, one for projection, ...), these are not all intended to be rendered together. I think the the following would all count as Web units: - home.htm with the CSS for \'screen\', - home.htm with the CSS for \'projection\', - home.htm with the CSS for \'braille\', - home.htm with the CSS for \'aural\', - ... However, this is not clear from the definition. If these are all different web units, it is also impossible to identify them with a URL, because the URL is the same for each. (2) If an HTML page uses an object element with one or more fallbacks nested inside it (see the example slightly below http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/REC-html401-19991224/struct/objects.html#idx-object-5), I think the Web unit you claim conformance for is the HTML document with the outermost object element (with the TheEarth.py applet). However, the content of each of the nested object elements is not meant to be rendered together with the content of all the other object elements. Does that mean that there is a different web unit per fallback/nested object element? (3) If a web page uses frames, the content of some of the frames depends on the user\'s interaction: e.g. clicking a link in the navigation frame opens a different document in the content frame. So the URL that identifies the frameset document does not always identify the same Web unit, unless the Web unit is limited to what is loaded by default. (4) If user agent X requests URL http://www.example.com/ with MIME type aaa/bbb and user agent Y requests the same URL with MIME type ccc/ddd, and they get different web units because of the different MIME type, the URL cannot be used to differentiate between the two web units. Does that mean these are different Web units according to the current definition? Most of this was previously discussed on the ERT mailing list in the context of conformance claims (see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2006May/0029.html and next messages in the same thread) and forwarded to the GL list (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2006AprJun/0181.html). Proposed Change: ---------------------------- Response from Working Group: ---------------------------- We have revised the guidelines and eliminated the word "Web unit" in favor of "Web page." We have defined "Web page"as follows (see http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-WCAG20-20070517/#webpagedef ): Web page a resource that is referenced by a URI and is not embedded in another resource, plus any other resources that are used in the rendering or intended to be rendered together with it Note: Although any "other resources" would be rendered together with the primary resource, they would not necessarily be rendered simultaneously with each other. Example 1: When you enter http://shopping.example.com/ in your browser you enter a movie-like interactive shopping environment where you visually move about a store dragging products off of the shelves around you into a visual shopping cart in front of you. Clicking on a product causes it to be demonstrated with a specification sheet floating alongside. Example 2: A Web resource including all embedded images and media. Example 3: A Web mail program built using Asynchronous JavaScript and XML (AJAX). The program lives entirely at http://mail.example.com, but includes an inbox, a contacts area and a calendar. Links or buttons are provided that cause the the inbox, contacts, or calendar to display, but do not change the URL of the page as a whole. Example 4: A customizable portal site, where users can choose content to display from a set of different content modules. To answer your questions: According to our definition. #1 - They are all the same Web page because they are all the same primary resource with different secondary resources rendered with them. #2 Again they are all the same Web page including all the nested versions. The secondary resources do not need to be rendered simultaneously with each other, only with the primary, to be part of the same Web page. Regarding your concern #3, the definition of Web page is purposefully written to include dynamic content that comes from the same URI. So all of the content from all the variations would be part of the web page. If the contents of the frames can be loaded separately as well, then they would also be separate Web pages as well. But they would still be part of the frame Web page. #4 If the different mime type would cause a different PRIMARY resource to be loaded, then they would be different Web pages. If you included that URI in your claim, all Web pages from that URI would have to be conform (meet the success criterion or have a mechanism to obtain a page with the same content that did). ---------------------------------------------------------- Comment 8: Source: http://www.w3.org/mid/20060817172637.5E1A8D7830@saba.w3.mag.keio.ac.jp (Issue ID: LC-1471) Part of Item: Comment Type: editorial Comment (including rationale for proposed change): While translating the guidelines into Dutch (http://purl.org/NET/error404/xp/wcag20/WD-WCAG20-20060427/guidelines.html) I ran into the following problem: \"legal\" (in SC 2.5.3) can be translated into Dutch as: - \"wettig\" (compliant with the law, as opposed to \"illegal\", or - \"wettelijk\" (described in law). I picked the second meaning, but it would be clearer if the SC said: \"commitments recognized by the law\" or \"legal commitments\" instead of \"legal transactions\". Proposed Change: Reword SC 2.5.3 from \"For forms that cause legal or financial transactions to occur ...\" to \"For forms that cause legal commitments or financial transactions to occur ...\" or to \"For forms that cause commitments recognized by the law, that cuase financial transactions to occur ...\". Alternatively/additionally, clarify \"legal transaction\" (or the substituted term) in HtM 2.5.3, with something like: \"Legal transactions are transactions where the person incurs a legally binding obligation or benefit (a marriage license, a stock trade (financial and legal), a will, a loan, adoption, signing up for the army, a contract of any type, etcetera).\" (And thank Gregg for the proposed wording.) ---------------------------- Response from Working Group: ---------------------------- We have revised the success criterion to read, "For forms that cause legal commitments or financial transactions to occur, that modify or delete user-controllable data in data storage systems, or that submit test responses, at least one of the following is true..." We have also added a definition for legal committments. ---------------------------------------------------------- Comment 9: Source: http://www.w3.org/mid/20060921130058.738FC66364@dolph.w3.org (Issue ID: LC-1517) Part of Item: Comment Type: general comment Comment (including rationale for proposed change): If a conformance claim is made for http://example.com/, does this include subdomains like http://www.example.com/, http://lists.example.com/ and http://cvs.example.com/? I would assume that they are all covered, unless some of them are explicitly excluded. This approach would be in line with RDF Content Labels [http://www.w3.org/2004/12/q/doc/content-labels-schema.htm] and URI Pattern Matching by the Web Content Labels Incubator Group [http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/wcl/matching.html]. Proposed Change: Add the following to item 6 of \"Required components of a conformance claim\": \"If only the URI of a host (e.g. http://example.com) is given without specifying subdomains, all subdomains (e.g. http://www.example.com/ and http://lists.example.com) are assumed to be covered, unless some subdomains are explicitly excluded.\" ---------------------------- Response from Working Group: ---------------------------- We have clarified item 4 under "Required components of conformance claim:" A description of the URIs that the claim is being made for, including whether subdomains are included in the claim. ---------------------------------------------------------- Comment 10: Source: http://www.w3.org/mid/20060929044426.E940947BA1@mojo.w3.org (Issue ID: LC-1518) Part of Item: Resources Comment Type: general comment Comment (including rationale for proposed change): A few links are outdated; a few can be added. Proposed Change: * Remove \'Search Engine World HTML Validation Service\' (no longer available). * Remove \'XSD Schema Validator by GotDotNet\' (no longer available). * Remove \'This article is also available as a single file: Working with XML.\' * Change http://www.nvu.com/index.html to http://www.nvu.com/ * Add \'Off-line CSS Validator – A clipbook for NoteTab\' (http://www.tuke.sk/podlubny/oc.html) * Add \'Schema Validator\' (http://www.xmlforasp.net/SchemaValidator.aspx): this is a validator that allows you to paste XML and W3C XML Schema code into text boxes to validate XML code. * Add \'XML Nanny\' (http://www.xmlnanny.com/), a graphical tool for validating XML and XHTML, with support for DTD, W3C XML Schema, RELAX NG and Schematron (Max OX X). ---------------------------- Response from Working Group: ---------------------------- Thanks. The additions/deletions have been implemented as proposed. ---------------------------------------------------------- Comment 11: Source: http://www.w3.org/mid/20060929045744.5AF6547BA1@mojo.w3.org (Issue ID: LC-1519) Part of Item: Examples Comment Type: editorial Comment (including rationale for proposed change): In example 3, the double backslash in the dir attribute (and the explanation above it) should be a single forward slash. Proposed Change: Replace dev\\\\web (double backslash) with dev/web (single forward slash). ---------------------------- Response from Working Group: ---------------------------- Done. ---------------------------------------------------------- Comment 12: Source: http://www.w3.org/mid/20061206121619.BA535BDA8@w3c4.w3.org (Issue ID: LC-1535) Part of Item: Intent Comment Type: substantive Comment (including rationale for proposed change): Please clarify how one would determine the reading ability required by a multilingual Web unit or page, for example an English text with long quotes in French. Proposed Change: One could consider the following approach: for each language that constitutes at least 5% of the content and that is used in full sentences or paragraphs (not just individual words or phrases), determine the reading ability required by the content in that language. Compare the scores for each language and use the \"worst\" score as the readability score for the whole Web unit or page. ---------------------------- Response from Working Group: ---------------------------- We have added the following paragraph to the Intent section of How to Meet 3.1.5: When a web page contains multiple languages, a readability result should be calculated for each language that constitutes at least 5% of the content and that is used in full sentences or paragraphs (not just individual words or phrases). The overall readability of the page should be judged on the language that yields the worst readability results. ---------------------------------------------------------- Comment 13: Source: http://www.w3.org/mid/20061206120019.2EE54BDA8@w3c4.w3.org (Issue ID: LC-1536) Part of Item: Comment Type: substantive Comment (including rationale for proposed change): Should the baseline also identify the human or natural languages that the content covered by the conformance claim relies upon? The rationale for this is twofold. 1. Success criteria 3.1.1 and 3.1.2 require language markup, especially for the benefit of users of speech synthesis and/or braille, but this language markup is of little benefit if the languages are not supported by, for example, the user\'s speech synthesis software. 2. Success criterion 3.1.5 requires supplemental content if text requires a reading ability more advanced than the lower secondary education level, but the algorithms or methods to determine the required reading ability are language-specific. (Similarly, the techniques you use to conform to WCAG depend on the technologies in your baseline.) Proposed Change: Consider adding the human languages that the content relies upon to the baseline. (This would imply a distinction between \"baseline technologies\", i.e. the current baseline concept, and \"baseline human languages\".) ---------------------------- Response from Working Group: ---------------------------- The conformance section of WCAG2 has been completely rewritten. The term "baseline" has been replaced by "accessibility-supported Web technologies". The issue of what it means to be an accessibility-supported Web technology is addressed in the section "Accessibility Support of Web Technologies" at http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-WCAG20-20070517/#accessibility-support . In analyzing whether a technology is accessibility supported, language support can and should be taken into account. This would be reflected in the documentation for the accessibility support including the language support of the various assistive technologies used in the analysis/report.
Received on Thursday, 17 May 2007 23:32:38 UTC