Re: 235 on styles and fonts

Kris Anne, Rain

Looks like a type-o slipped in and it's issue 237 that discusses fonts

See Rachael's email on the topic

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2021Feb/0069.html

Steve

On 17/02/2021 17:01, Rain Michaels wrote:
> I'm also not seeing the linked issue for fonts, but I am very much in 
> favor of discussing this and perhaps suggesting a change to the W3C 
> styles. This sounds like a pretty big feat, and I'd be willing to take 
> responsibility for it if someone more seasoned is willing to guide me 
> through the process.
> 
> As an individual who struggles with visual reading, I have always 
> personally had a lot of difficulty with default browser styles across 
> the board, and also have long struggled with these very documents on the 
> W3C site. Challenges:
> 
>   * The font itself (largely because of the letter spacing)
>   * The line height of the font (far too tight)
> 
> The advantage of the current style is that it uses "sans-serif" instead 
> of a specific font, which means that any user who has taken time to 
> customize their default browser fonts will get their individual 
> preference instead of the default of helvetica or arial. Unfortunately, 
> very few people who might benefit from this know that this is something 
> they can do, and this doesn't resolve the line height issue.
> 
> We know that increased line height supports users with reading 
> disabilities because it makes it easier to track line to line. We also 
> know that increased letter spacing can help (which is also not something 
> the user can set in browser preferences).
> 
> What we *do not know* is which fonts are going to be easiest for an 
> individual, as this is highly personal and rather learned. I've known 
> individuals with dyslexia who cannot read Arial, which is largely touted 
> as the best standard font for supporting readers with dyslexia. I've 
> also spoken with individuals with dyslexia who prefer Times New Roman, a 
> serif font largely considered bad for individuals with dyslexia, simply 
> because it is the font they lived with through school and now find most 
> familiar.
> 
> That said, I typically use Poppins for preparing materials for 
> individuals that I work and codesign with who have cognitive 
> disabilities because it is a nice wide font that uses the a with no hat 
> instead of the a with a hat. I have yet to have anyone tell me that 
> Poppins is challenging for them, and it is a font that I often use as a 
> default for my own documents because I find it easier to read, as well.
> 
> The COGA documents on supporting users with dyslexia already give a lot 
> of this guidance, and so it may be worth recommending that the W3C 
> styles be changed (even if not in the near term) to better match this 
> guidance.
> 
> Rain
> 
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 7:57 AM Kinney, Kris Anne <kakinney@ets.org 
> <mailto:kakinney@ets.org>> wrote:
> 
>     Is there a linked issue referring to the fonts? ____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     I don’t see any reference to the fonts used in the issue, I only see
>     a question on the consistency of the formatting of the list items
>     through the document.    Am I missing a piece?____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     Thanks,____
> 
>     Kris Anne____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     -- 
>     Kris Anne Kinney, CPACC____
> 
>     Accessibility Specialist____
> 
>     609-734-1466 <tel:(609)%20734-1466>____
> 
>     ____
> 
>     The only thing worse than being blind is having sight with no
>     vision.  ~ Helen Keller____
> 
>     ____
> 
>     Have a request for an accessibility review?  Please submit an
>     Accessibility Work Request
>     <https://etsorg1.sharepoint.com/teams/rd/a11y/Lists/Accessiblity%20Work%20Requests/active.aspx> on
>     SharePoint.____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     *From: *Michael Cooper <cooper@w3.org <mailto:cooper@w3.org>>
>     *Date: *Wednesday, February 17, 2021 at 10:32 AM
>     *To: *Lisa Seeman <lisa1seeman@gmail.com
>     <mailto:lisa1seeman@gmail.com>>, public-cognitive-a11y-tf
>     <public-cognitive-a11y-tf@w3.org
>     <mailto:public-cognitive-a11y-tf@w3.org>>
>     *Subject: *Re: 235 on styles and fonts____
> 
>     I'm not sure about the context of this question, but if it's about
>     the TR version of content usable, no, we can't change the font, it's
>     part of the W3C styles that we can't override. Issues with the W3C
>     styles should be filed in https://github.com/w3c/tr-design
>     <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Ftr-design&data=04%7C01%7Ckakinney%40ets.org%7Ca5c0deca647f47526e4008d8d3590ea2%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C637491727210912463%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=A1ieMPfHK4VkgvzewcPageKOC7maBN%2FBg9z%2FryImU08%3D&reserved=0>.
>     Michael____
> 
>     On 17/02/2021 6:24 a.m., Lisa Seeman wrote:____
> 
>         Hi Folks____
> 
>         Issue 235
>         <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fcoga%2Fissues%2F235&data=04%7C01%7Ckakinney%40ets.org%7Ca5c0deca647f47526e4008d8d3590ea2%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C637491727210922450%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=8y%2FVEsRH%2BOg7xboXIvPOCGrKXMMu0%2Bf%2BOJJMbwuVQ%2BU%3D&reserved=0>
>         on styles, has pointed out that the fonts are not easy to read.____
> 
>         __ __
> 
>         I hate to have this conversation but what font do we prefer? ____
> 
>         I  suggest the browser default. (Michael is that possible)____
> 
>         All the best____
> 
>         Lisa____
> 
> 
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Received on Thursday, 18 February 2021 08:52:47 UTC