Re: 235 on styles and fonts

I can help with the process aspects of this. A few things to be aware 
of: 1) the TR styles are updated once per year at most, after a review 
process, meaning it could take up to 2 years for changes to show up. 2) 
Major changes to styles that impact all users may not be supported. I'd 
encourage exploring a personalization approach, which might include 
adding a "customize style" widget to TR pages, rather than redo the 
styles globally given the variety of preferences.

Michael

On 17/02/2021 12:01 p.m., Rain Michaels wrote:
> I'm also not seeing the linked issue for fonts, but I am very much in 
> favor of discussing this and perhaps suggesting a change to the W3C 
> styles. This sounds like a pretty big feat, and I'd be willing to take 
> responsibility for it if someone more seasoned is willing to guide me 
> through the process.
>
> As an individual who struggles with visual reading, I have always 
> personally had a lot of difficulty with default browser styles across 
> the board, and also have long struggled with these very documents on 
> the W3C site. Challenges:
>
>   * The font itself (largely because of the letter spacing)
>   * The line height of the font (far too tight)
>
> The advantage of the current style is that it uses "sans-serif" 
> instead of a specific font, which means that any user who has taken 
> time to customize their default browser fonts will get their 
> individual preference instead of the default of helvetica or arial. 
> Unfortunately, very few people who might benefit from this know that 
> this is something they can do, and this doesn't resolve the line 
> height issue.
>
> We know that increased line height supports users with reading 
> disabilities because it makes it easier to track line to line. We also 
> know that increased letter spacing can help (which is also not 
> something the user can set in browser preferences).
>
> What we *do not know* is which fonts are going to be easiest for an 
> individual, as this is highly personal and rather learned. I've known 
> individuals with dyslexia who cannot read Arial, which is largely 
> touted as the best standard font for supporting readers with dyslexia. 
> I've also spoken with individuals with dyslexia who prefer Times New 
> Roman, a serif font largely considered bad for individuals with 
> dyslexia, simply because it is the font they lived with through school 
> and now find most familiar.
>
> That said, I typically use Poppins for preparing materials for 
> individuals that I work and codesign with who have cognitive 
> disabilities because it is a nice wide font that uses the a with no 
> hat instead of the a with a hat. I have yet to have anyone tell me 
> that Poppins is challenging for them, and it is a font that I often 
> use as a default for my own documents because I find it easier to 
> read, as well.
>
> The COGA documents on supporting users with dyslexia already give a 
> lot of this guidance, and so it may be worth recommending that the W3C 
> styles be changed (even if not in the near term) to better match this 
> guidance.
>
> Rain
>
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 7:57 AM Kinney, Kris Anne <kakinney@ets.org 
> <mailto:kakinney@ets.org>> wrote:
>
>     Is there a linked issue referring to the fonts?
>
>     I don’t see any reference to the fonts used in the issue, I only
>     see a question on the consistency of the formatting of the list
>     items through the document.   Am I missing a piece?
>
>     Thanks,
>
>     Kris Anne
>
>     -- 
>     Kris Anne Kinney, CPACC
>
>     Accessibility Specialist
>
>     609-734-1466 <tel:(609)%20734-1466>
>
>     The only thing worse than being blind is having sight with no
>     vision.  ~ Helen Keller
>
>     Have a request for an accessibility review?  Please submit an
>     Accessibility Work Request
>     <https://etsorg1.sharepoint.com/teams/rd/a11y/Lists/Accessiblity%20Work%20Requests/active.aspx> on
>     SharePoint.
>
>     *From: *Michael Cooper <cooper@w3.org <mailto:cooper@w3.org>>
>     *Date: *Wednesday, February 17, 2021 at 10:32 AM
>     *To: *Lisa Seeman <lisa1seeman@gmail.com
>     <mailto:lisa1seeman@gmail.com>>, public-cognitive-a11y-tf
>     <public-cognitive-a11y-tf@w3.org
>     <mailto:public-cognitive-a11y-tf@w3.org>>
>     *Subject: *Re: 235 on styles and fonts
>
>     I'm not sure about the context of this question, but if it's about
>     the TR version of content usable, no, we can't change the font,
>     it's part of the W3C styles that we can't override. Issues with
>     the W3C styles should be filed in https://github.com/w3c/tr-design
>     <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Ftr-design&data=04%7C01%7Ckakinney%40ets.org%7Ca5c0deca647f47526e4008d8d3590ea2%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C637491727210912463%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=A1ieMPfHK4VkgvzewcPageKOC7maBN%2FBg9z%2FryImU08%3D&reserved=0>.
>     Michael
>
>     On 17/02/2021 6:24 a.m., Lisa Seeman wrote:
>
>         Hi Folks
>
>         Issue 235
>         <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fcoga%2Fissues%2F235&data=04%7C01%7Ckakinney%40ets.org%7Ca5c0deca647f47526e4008d8d3590ea2%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C637491727210922450%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=8y%2FVEsRH%2BOg7xboXIvPOCGrKXMMu0%2Bf%2BOJJMbwuVQ%2BU%3D&reserved=0>
>         on styles, has pointed out that the fonts are not easy to read.
>
>         I hate to have this conversation but what font do we prefer?
>
>         I  suggest the browser default. (Michael is that possible)
>
>         All the best
>
>         Lisa
>
>
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