Re: 235 on styles and fonts

I'm also not seeing the linked issue for fonts, but I am very much in favor
of discussing this and perhaps suggesting a change to the W3C styles. This
sounds like a pretty big feat, and I'd be willing to take responsibility
for it if someone more seasoned is willing to guide me through the process.

As an individual who struggles with visual reading, I have always
personally had a lot of difficulty with default browser styles across the
board, and also have long struggled with these very documents on the W3C
site. Challenges:

   - The font itself (largely because of the letter spacing)
   - The line height of the font (far too tight)

The advantage of the current style is that it uses "sans-serif" instead of
a specific font, which means that any user who has taken time to customize
their default browser fonts will get their individual preference instead of
the default of helvetica or arial. Unfortunately, very few people who might
benefit from this know that this is something they can do, and this doesn't
resolve the line height issue.

We know that increased line height supports users with reading disabilities
because it makes it easier to track line to line. We also know that
increased letter spacing can help (which is also not something the user can
set in browser preferences).

What we *do not know* is which fonts are going to be easiest for an
individual, as this is highly personal and rather learned. I've known
individuals with dyslexia who cannot read Arial, which is largely touted as
the best standard font for supporting readers with dyslexia. I've also
spoken with individuals with dyslexia who prefer Times New Roman, a serif
font largely considered bad for individuals with dyslexia, simply because
it is the font they lived with through school and now find most familiar.

That said, I typically use Poppins for preparing materials for individuals
that I work and codesign with who have cognitive disabilities because it is
a nice wide font that uses the a with no hat instead of the a with a hat. I
have yet to have anyone tell me that Poppins is challenging for them, and
it is a font that I often use as a default for my own documents because I
find it easier to read, as well.

The COGA documents on supporting users with dyslexia already give a lot of
this guidance, and so it may be worth recommending that the W3C styles be
changed (even if not in the near term) to better match this guidance.

Rain

On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 7:57 AM Kinney, Kris Anne <kakinney@ets.org> wrote:

> Is there a linked issue referring to the fonts?
>
>
>
> I don’t see any reference to the fonts used in the issue, I only see a
> question on the consistency of the formatting of the list items through the
> document.    Am I missing a piece?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kris Anne
>
>
>
> --
> Kris Anne Kinney, CPACC
>
> Accessibility Specialist
>
> 609-734-1466 <(609)%20734-1466>
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>
>
> The only thing worse than being blind is having sight with no vision.  ~
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>
> *From: *Michael Cooper <cooper@w3.org>
> *Date: *Wednesday, February 17, 2021 at 10:32 AM
> *To: *Lisa Seeman <lisa1seeman@gmail.com>, public-cognitive-a11y-tf <
> public-cognitive-a11y-tf@w3.org>
> *Subject: *Re: 235 on styles and fonts
>
> I'm not sure about the context of this question, but if it's about the TR
> version of content usable, no, we can't change the font, it's part of the
> W3C styles that we can't override. Issues with the W3C styles should be
> filed in https://github.com/w3c/tr-design
> <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Ftr-design&data=04%7C01%7Ckakinney%40ets.org%7Ca5c0deca647f47526e4008d8d3590ea2%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C637491727210912463%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=A1ieMPfHK4VkgvzewcPageKOC7maBN%2FBg9z%2FryImU08%3D&reserved=0>.
> Michael
>
> On 17/02/2021 6:24 a.m., Lisa Seeman wrote:
>
> Hi Folks
>
> Issue 235
> <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fcoga%2Fissues%2F235&data=04%7C01%7Ckakinney%40ets.org%7Ca5c0deca647f47526e4008d8d3590ea2%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C637491727210922450%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=8y%2FVEsRH%2BOg7xboXIvPOCGrKXMMu0%2Bf%2BOJJMbwuVQ%2BU%3D&reserved=0>
> on styles, has pointed out that the fonts are not easy to read.
>
>
>
> I hate to have this conversation but what font do we prefer?
>
> I  suggest the browser default. (Michael is that possible)
>
> All the best
>
> Lisa
>
>
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