- From: Luca Passani <passani@eunet.no>
- Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 17:39:18 +0200
- To: public-bpwg-comments@w3.org
Jo, What about removing clause 2 of 4.15? specifically the exception that says that headers can be modified if "the user has specifically requested a restructured desktop experience" this would solve the UA issue in one fell swoop Luca Jo Rabin wrote: > > This seems to be going round in circles and I am unsure of what points > are being made. It's going to be difficult for the WG to extract > specific points to be addressed. > > I think that there is a possibility that the discussion is based on > premises that I don't perceive in the document. > > It would be helpful to me, as editor, to know as separate issues: > a) in which ways the document does not make any of it clear, > b) which aspects of what it specifies are objectionable, and what > possible alternatives there are, given the objectives. > > Here's how I see it. > > 1) Changing User Agent or other headers is not prohibited by HTTP - > except for as noted under 13.5.2 > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2616#section-13.5.2 > > 2) The CT Guidelines don't view the combination of transforming proxy > and user agent as an extended user agent. That means that the normal > operation of a CT proxy, as defined by us, is the same as the > operation of a regular proxy. > > 3) We specify, over and above what HTTP specifies, that the User Agent > and other headers should be left alone except in certain specific cases. > > 4) The first case is where a request, with the original headers, is > rejected with a 406 error or equivalent. In this case the proxy MAY > change the headers, but if it does MUST preserve the old ones in a > different form. The reason for this is that in this case it is likely > that the site does not have a specific mobile experience, and it > serves the user's interest to get them an experience of some kind. > > The document provides scope for CT Proxies to "remember" previous > behaviour of Web sites and to short cut content tasting with original > headers on the basis of that. This seems sensible on the basis that it > improves user experience and reduces load on servers. However, if CT > proxies adopt this behaviour then they must be prepared to reverse out > of it if circumstances change. > > Also, there is the possibility that the site really doesn't want the > user of a mobile device to experience their content, and the option is > open to them to signal that by using no-transform on the 406 response. > This seems reasonable to me, given the relative infrequency of this > use case, and given that special effort has to be taken to reject > specific user agents in the first place. > > 5) The second case is where the user has specifically requested a > restructured desktop experience. This is equivalent in my mind to > using the Firefox User Agent Switcher. > > My personal view is that most users will want to perceive a specially > crafted mobile experience rather than a restructured experience, but > other people do not share my view and it is at least conceivable that > this is the case. > > The document says "specifically requested". That means, in my view, > that it is not established as a default setting. > > [In detail there are also cases where a proxy MAY continue with > headers from a previous request for the sake of continuing an ongoing > session with some kind of consistency. We're talking about the > "initial request" here.] > > 6) Notwithstanding either of the above: > > The document says: > > ... It is anticipated that proxies will maintain preferences on a user > by user and Web site by Web site basis, and will change their > behaviour in the light of changing circumstances as discussed under > 4.3.4 Receipt of Vary HTTP Header. > > Section 4.3.4 says that the Proxy must keep an eye out for changed > behaviour at the server and must re-evaluate both user preferences and > the allowed short-cut on content tasting if circumstances change. > > 7) Allow and Disallow lists and what not. > > We don't refer to lists in the document on the basis that we model the > behaviour of the proxy in a black box way, i.e. the details of its > internal operation are not subject to our specification. However, no > matter how it works internally, the proxy must change its behaviour in > the above circumstances. > > In my mind this is specifically intended as a work around to real > world operational problems and to provide a "self-healing" capability > for incorrectly configured proxies. > > 8) Summary > > The normal course of operation of a conforming CT proxy is not to > change any header that it is not required to by HTTP. > > There are two exceptions where the actual device headers are not > presented first. They are 1) that the CT proxy is trying to optimise > the fact that the request with the original headers will be rejected, > and 2) where the user has specifically requested a restructured > version of the desktop experience. > > In both cases a server will have the knowledge that this is happening > and may reject this behaviour. > > Servers are not required to change their operation. If they decide to > conform that is their option. If they don't, then conforming CT > proxies are required in any case to assess whether the server is > offering a mobile friendly service. > > > I hope this clarifies any misunderstanding as to what the document > says. These are my views and not the official view of the Task Force, > the Working Group, the W3C or any divine being. > > Jo
Received on Wednesday, 6 August 2008 15:40:00 UTC