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MINUTES(edited): W3C WAI User Agent Telecon 17 November 1999

From: Jon Gunderson <jongund@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 14:36:57 -0600
Message-Id: <4.1.19991117143339.00c36cb0@staff.uiuc.edu>
To: w3c-wai-ua@w3.org
 Attendance

Chair: Jon Gunderson

Scribe: Jim Allan

RSVP Present:
Gregory J. Rosmaita 
David Poehlman 
Harvey Bingham 
Mickey Quenzer 
Jim Allan 
Dick Brown
Marja-Riitta Koivunen
Ian Jacobs (joined in progress)
Rich Schwerdtfeger (joined in progress)
Charles McCathieNevile (joined in progress)

RSVP Regrets:
Al Gilman 
Mark Novak
Madeleine Rothberg
Kitch Barnicle

Action Items

Completed Action Items

   1.JG: Review techniques for Guideline 2 
     http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0299.html
     http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0291.html
     http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0292.html
     http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0293.html
     http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0294.html
     http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0295.html
     http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0296.html
     http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0297.html 

   2.JG: Review techniques for Guideline 8
     http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0322.html 

   3.KB: Post information about Easy Access/Infrared technology to list as
a proposal for inclusion in the techniques document
     http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0276.html 

   4.HB: Review techniques for topic 3.3
     http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0286.html 

   5.MQ: Review techniques for Guideline 10
     http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0306.html
     http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0307.html
     http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0308.html
     http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0309.html
     http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0311.html
     http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0312.html
     http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0313.html 

   6.RS: Review techniques for Guideline 1 
     http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0328.html 

   7.DP: Review techniques for Guideline 11
     http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0321.html 

   8.GR: Review techniques for Guideline 11
     http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0321.html 

   9.JA: Review techniques for Guideline 3
     http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0324.html
     http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0326.html 

  10.MQ: Find someone from WinAmp, SigTuna to agree to review last call
draft when available 
     Status: no response, dropped 

  11.MN: Contact someone at United Cerebral Palsy to agree to review last
call draft when available 
     Status: No response, dropped 

  12.MN: Suggest a last call reviewer at Apple computer
     Status: Found Mary Beth Janes, she has agreed to review document 

  13.TL: Get feedback from MS IE Team on usability of 5 October Techniques
structure (wait for next draft). 
     Status: Reviewed guidelines with Ian and Charles during their visit to
MS on 11/14 and 11/15 

Continued Action Items 

   1.IJ: Propose how the conformance checklist will be delivered 

   2.IJ: If W3C Comm Team develops a statement related to NFB vs. AOL, keep
the UAGL WG informed. 

   3.IJ: Review techniques for topic 3.2 

   4.JG: Review techniques for Guideline 8
     Status: need finish checkpoint 8.2 to 8.9 

   5.KB: Update impact matrix based on 5 November draft. 

   6.KB: Review techniques for Guideline 7 

   7.RS: Send last call document to IBM's Web Team in Austin. 

   8.JA: Review techniques for topic 3.1 

   9.JA: Review techniques for Guideline 4 

  10.MR: Review techniques for topic 3.1 (Multi-media) 

  11.MR: Review techniques for Guideline 3 (Multi-media) 

  12.MR: Review techniques for Guideline 4 (Multi-media) 

  13.DB: Contact Dave Bolnick about SAMI accessibility features to include
in techniques document and see if he would be willing to review the
     guidelines. 

  14.DB: Review techniques for Guideline 5 

  15.DB: Contact person in Windows media group to agree to review last call
draft when available 

  16.CMN: Review techniques for Guideline 9 

  17.CMN: Review techniques for topic 3.6 

  18.GR: Review techniques for topic 3.5 

New Action Items 

   1.JG: Contact David Clark about UCP contact and personal review the
guidelines 

   2.HB: Send problem statement to the ua list and www-html-editor@w3.org
related to table header algorithm 

   3.IJ: Bring table header algorithm problem to html wg 

   4.GR: Send example of using CSS pseudo element list numbering using
content tag 

   5.GR: Check if their is a css pseudo class for lang change in document 

   6.MRK: Send proposal for configuration options for checkpoint 2.2.3 to
the list, GR will help 

   7.MRK: to send SMIL examples to the list of problems related SMIL
rendering of time-dependent links 

Minutes

Review Open Action Items

   1.IJ: Propose how the conformance checklist will be delivered 
     Status: pending 

   2.IJ: If W3C Comm Team develops a statement related to NFB vs. AOL, keep
the UAGL WG informed. 
     Status: pending 

   3.IJ: Review techniques for topic 3.2 
     Status: pending 

   4.JG: Confirm 7 December telecon date with systems people we have a
bridge, may move depending on w3 staff availability 
     Status: done 

   5.JG: Review techniques for Guideline 2 
     Status: done 

   6.JG: Review techniques for Guideline 8 
     Status: only to 8.1.1 

   7.KB: Post information about Easy Access/Infrared technology to list as
a proposal for inclusion in the techniques document 
     Status: done 

   8.KB: Update impact matrix based on 5 November draft. 
     Status: pending 

   9.KB: Review techniques for Guideline 7 
     Status: pending 

  10.RS: Send last call document to IBM's Web Team in Austin. 
     Status: pending 

  11.RS: Review techniques for Guideline 1 
     Status: pending 

  12.JA: Review techniques for topic 3.1 
     Status: pending 

  13.JA: Review techniques for Guideline 3 
     Status: done 

  14.JA: Review techniques for Guideline 4 
     Status: pending 

  15.MR: Review techniques for topic 3.1 (Multi-media) 
     Status: pending 

  16.MR: Review techniques for Guideline 3 (Multi-media) 
     Status: pending 

  17.MR: Review techniques for Guideline 4 (Multi-media) 
     Status: pending 

  18.DB: Contact Dave Bolnick about SAMI access. 
     Status: pending 

  19.DB: Review techniques for Guideline 5 
     Status: pending 

  20.DB: Contact person in Windows media group to agree to review last call
draft when available 
     Status: pending 

  21.CMN: Review techniques for Guideline 9 
     Status: pending 

  22.CMN: Review techniques for topic 3.6 
     Status: pending 

  23.MQ: Review techniques for Guideline 10 
     Status: done 

  24.MQ: Find someone from WinAmp, SigTuna to agree to review last call
draft when available 
     Status: remove, no response from inquires 

  25.DP: Review techniques for Guideline 11 
     Status: done 

  26.GR: Review techniques for Guideline 11 
     Status: done 

  27.GR: Review techniques for topic 3.5 
     Status: done 

  28.HB: Review techniques for topic 3.3 
     Status: done 

  29.MN: Contact someone at United Cerebral Palsy to agree to review last
call draft when available 
     Status: No response, remove from list

     Action JG: contact Dave Clark at Cast for UCP and personal review. 

  30.MN: Suggest a last call reviewer at Apple computer
     Status: done 

  31.TL: Get feedback from MS IE Team on usability of 5 October Techniques
structure (wait for next draft). 
     Status: done 

Announcements

1.Register for F2F meeting at IBM in Austin, TX on December 9th and 10th 

db- will register soon 

mq - will register soon 

jg - 8 people currently registered 

Discussion

1.Add EZ access / AIIP as techniques for checkpoint 1.1 for devices that
support only one input method

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0278.html 

jg- wants to withdraw proposal for EZ access pointer, still to early in
development, wait for it to be more stable all- no objections 

jg- new issue by Rich, cross platform accessibility should be DOM level 2,
based on mozilla work and sharing DOM module. Last call issue, it is on
the issue list (issue 114) 

ij - not sure how it changes current check point, "implement DOM" 

jg - rich wants stronger recommendation for DOM2, always provide access to DOM 

ij-will look at proposal 

jg-reference dom2 

ij-dom2 is at last call. difficult to reference in our document 

jg-process-review checkpoints 

ij-review proposals, rather than open questions 

jg- hb 11/14 table tech #286 on the list 

hb- table, affect of column spanning on the linearization algorithm, listed
problems, no good solutions, implementation problems 

jg-can you propose a new algorithm 

ij-send task to html wg, they need to fix it, send suggested solutions, 

Action HB: sent problem statement to the list and www-html-editor@w3.org 

action IJ: bring table problem to html wg 

jg- problem has be around for a while, how to communicate to html group 

ij-send problem to editor of html working group wwwhtmleditor@w3.org 

ij-not a dependency, algorithm is broken, 

jg-will review by working group, then forward to www-html-editor@w3.org 

ij-cc editor and ua group 

hb-raised issue with Dave Raggett 1.5 years ago, no response 

Proposal for techniques for checkpint 2.1 

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0299.html 

jg- Editor note 2.1.1 delete from jg proposal 

2.1.2 In a speech based user interface allow the user to navigate letters,
words, sentences and other semantic phrases of text content

problem with large screen and horizontal scroll bar, what to do about the
text rendering content in the width of the current window, screen readers may
only what is in the display window. 

ja-if browser reformats loose relationship of information 

rs-ie reflows 

jg-depends on author coding of page, browser adjusts 

mq-other devices may affect screen width 

jg-no other graphical browser 

2.1.3 add list of requirements.

rs: techniques for GL 1 , aspects of textdrawing calls for legacy screen
readers, 2 areas for text drawing, standard device api, talk directly to video
buffer, refer back to other sections that relate to this topic. 

jg-cross referencing techniques or checkpoints is good, techniques that
cross more than one checkpoint should map to Section 3 topical discussions 

2.1.4. Provide the user with information about the type of element; for
example support the generated content elements of CSS

jg-implement pseudo element and content tag information 

Action GR: style pseudo element list numbering with content tag 

hb-user needs option for blank or null alt display or notification 

ja-may be able to display something for null alt image with css 

gr-discussed this on the list, presented proposal 

dp-problem gr techniques go against 

cmn-wcag display what author specifies as alt text 

dp-author may specify nothing resulting in link, link, link 

gr-will send again 

db-conventions for alt, use null value, proposal will work only if authors
cooperate, 

jg-this is a p3 in uagl, should this go to html wg 

db-no, just need the information 

gr-will cross post to wcag 

cmn-not for html wg, bad authoring not html 

jg-need good example of this for guideline 8 

2.1.5. Allow the user to view structured and outlined views of the content
to facilitate the identification of topics and structure of the
document

**reference checkpoint in gl 8 

2.1.6 Provide generated content to indicate structural relationships like
table cell header information and which item in a list of items

**reference checkpoint in gl 8 or table topic in section 3, list of items
section in gl 4 

2.2.1 Allow the user to select their preferred language when rendering
audio descriptions....

dp-for voice browsing, hpr has this feature, may be a good example 

jg-another checkpoint 2.3 auto change of language may need another techniques 

2.2.3 allow user to view/select language tracks, caption tracks (see quick
time, and real player) addressed in MRotherberg materials

db-leaves call 

maria-render visually 

gr- css pseudo element may help with this ja to help 

Action GR:css pseudo class for lang change in document 

maria - should have user control configure how lang changes are rendered 

Resolution: add user control configure how lang changes are rendered to
check point 2.2.3 

Action MRK: configuration options for checkpoint 2.2.3 may need help, send
proposal to list. gr to help 

gr-if you implement css you get a lot of stuff for free 

Techniques for Checkpoint 2.3 Render content according to natural language
identification. [Priority 1] 

2.3.1 Automatically change fonts for a user agent rendering content visually

OK, no discussion

2.3.2 Automatically change the language of the voice for a user agent
rendering content through speech . 

OK, no discussion

2.3.2 When unsupported languages are specified by the author, provide the
user with information on the change in language

MRK: It would render it as text

JG: Yes for a user agent that rendered information visually

Techniques for Checkpoint 2.4 Provide time-independent access to
time-dependent active elements or allow the user
to control the timing of changes. [Priority 1] 

2.4.1 Provide a list of static links for time dependent links in a resource 

2.4.2 Allow the user to configure the user agent to pause the rendering of
time dependent content when time dependent active content
changes 

Editor: add reference to multimedia stuff 

maria-do we have information on imagemaps, in smil can have hot spot links
on images videos, need to extract these links for user to activate. 

gr-need a no script option in addition to pause, long list on the cast
site, a gif is linked to hyper link that is only on the page for 5 seconds 

gr-to make an example of this 

jg-if smil doc, with links (map element) on image 

cmn-required to have alt 

maria-in smil you only have title, still time dependency issues 

jg-smil doc should be accessible, if links embedded in video, only have
title attribute 

**bring up next week - smil and hotspot problem 

Action MNK: to send SMIL examples to the list of problems related SMIL
rendering of time-dependent links 

Techniques for Checkpoint 2.6 If a technology allows for more than one
audio track, allow the user to choose from
among tracks. [Priority 1]

2.6.1 Allow the user to view the currently available audio tracks 

OK, no discussion

2.6.2 Allow the user to select from among the currently available audio tracks

JG: refer back to choosing equivalent tracks see 2.3

Techniques for Checkpoint 2.7 When no text equivalent has been specified,
indicate what type of object is present.
[Priority 2] 

2.7.1 If captioning information is not available and captioning is turned
on, render no captioning information available in the captioning
display window 

OK, no discussion

2.7.2 If no ALT text or TITLE text has been provided by the author render
the word image with the file name

dp-concerned with checkpoint that says "render nothing" 

jg-these should cover that 

dp- still a problem with "" 

2.7.3 If no TITLE text is available for a FRAMESET element, render FRAME x
of y frames or use the TITLE information from the
URL referenced by the FRAMESET element

mq-what if there is no title 

jg-render frame x of y 

gr-get title, if none present then present x of y 

hb-any feed back from any outside list 

jg-no, will send out reminder to invited reviewers 



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Jon Gunderson, Ph.D., ATP
Coordinator of Assistive Communication and Information Technology
Chair, W3C WAI User Agent Working Group
Division of Rehabilitation - Education Services
College of Applied Life Studies
University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign
1207 S. Oak Street, Champaign, IL  61820

Voice: (217) 244-5870
Fax: (217) 333-0248

E-mail: jongund@uiuc.edu

WWW: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~jongund
WWW: http://www.w3.org/wai/ua
Received on Wednesday, 17 November 1999 15:38:53 UTC

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