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Re: Request to open new issue to expand longdesc (was Re: hypothetical question on longdesc)

From: Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 06:58:40 -0500
Message-ID: <CAOavpvevijRR32kVA45z_UOEbq9LuTqSWMNMPj67WcQK6d2Zqg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>
Cc: Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>, HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>, "public-html@w3.org" <public-html@w3.org>
Hi Paul,

While I disagree with your statement about 204, it is a minor point in
my request and a red herring in your reply. Nothing is stopping the
Chairs from taking responsibility for their delay and opening a new
issue.

My request stands. Do the Chairs deny or grant it?

Best Regards,
Laura

On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 3:52 PM, Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com> wrote:
>> Sam opened Issue 204 with no last call bug.
>
> We did this because in the view of the Chairs since we consider the question behind ISSUE-104 a sub-issue of ISSUE-30.  Proof of that is that the Chairs are delayed the processing of ISSUE-30 until we deal with ISSUE-204.
>
> This is simply a VERY different situation than your request and it is NOT a precedent you can cite.
>
> /paulc
>
> Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
> 17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3
> Tel: (425) 705-9596 Fax: (425) 936-7329
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Laura Carlson [mailto:laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 4:42 PM
> To: Paul Cotton
> Cc: Maciej Stachowiak; Sam Ruby; HTML Accessibility Task Force; public-html@w3.org
> Subject: Request to open new issue to expand longdesc (was Re: hypothetical question on longdesc)
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> I wrote:
>
>>>>> Including an attribute or element in HTML5 is a SEPARATE issue than
>>>>> modifying an attribute or element after a decision to include it in
>>>>> the spec has been adjudicated.
>
> Sam wrote:
>
>>>> There is no such separate issue being tracked for HTML5, and we are
>>>> past last call.
>
> I wrote:
>
>>> That is a very sad state of affairs. Would the Chairs consider
>>> opening such an Issue due to the circumstances?
>
> Paul wrote:
>
>> The WG Chairs have no mechanism for opening up such a new issue.
>
> 1. Go to: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/open
> 2. Select: "Raise an issue"
>
> Paul wrote:
>
>> There is no Last Call bug that we could associate such a new issue
>> with and the date for the creation of issues for the current Last Call
>> has passed.
>
> Sam opened Issue 204 with no last call bug.
>
> I ask you Paul, how in the world can a person file a bug to modify/expand an attribute if that attribute is obsolete? If the Chairs had decided the reopened ISSUE-30 pre-last call as I asked last well over a year ago or expedited it as promised during last call as you promised last year,  bugs could have been filed within your timeline, and this would not be a problem now. But the Chairs declined to decide it pre-last and did not expedite it as promised during last call. The Chairs are in charge of the issue schedule and polling; I'm not.
>
> I have tried my best to work in good faith within the WG process. For reference:
>
> = History of the Issue =
>
> August 21, 2010, Sam Ruby said:
> "...If you have new facts to bring forward, you may do so at any time."
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Aug/0222.html
>
> November 30, 2010, Sam Ruby said:
> "Our position has always been that we are seeking a description of what problems longdesc solves, and a description of how longdesc makes things better."
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Nov/0299.html
>
> November 30, 2010, I asked Sam:
> "I have been gathering documentation. It is just a matter of if it will be productive to try to reopen ISSUE-30 or more efficient go straight to a Formal Objection. Your advice?"
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Nov/0298.html
>
> November 30, 2010, Sam Ruby replied,
> "I do not recommend that you proceed directly with that information directly to the Director. My advice is that that information, when it is deemed to be complete, be presented to the HTML WG on public-html."
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Nov/0300.html
>
> It was repeated that there was no rush to ask for longdesc to be reopened PRE-Last Call:
>  * December 1, 2010 Paul Cotton said: "...there is no rush to make this request."
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Dec/0026.html
>  * January 6, 2011 Mike Smith said: "... don't have any particular time-pressure to follow up with new info"
> http://www.w3.org/2011/01/06-html-a11y-minutes.html#item04
>
> 21 February 2011, because of Sam's November 30, 2010 response to me instead of filing a Formal Objection I asked for ISSUE-30 to be
> reopened:
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Feb/0362.html
>
> March 2, 2011, the HTML Chairs reopened HTML-ISSUE-30:
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Mar/0015.html
>
> The request to decide the issue PRE-Last Call was denied by the HTML Chairs.
>
> May 16, 2011, the accessibility task force endorsed my proposal:
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011May/0170.html
>
> May 25, 2011, in the "Responses to Last Call survey objections" the HTML Chairs promised to EXPEDITE the processing of ISSUE-30 during Last Call:
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011May/0347.html
>
> April 3, 2012, accessibility task force consensus continues to support reinstating longdesc as fully conforming:
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Apr/0003.html
>
> To date the HTML Chairs have not expedited the issue. ISSUE-30 is still open and undecided.
>
> Due to the HTML Chairs delays, I again ask Paul,  please reconsider opening  an issue to expand longdesc.
>
> Best Regards,
> Laura
>
> --
> Laura L. Carlson
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 12:54 PM, Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com> wrote:
>>> Would the Chairs' consider opening such an Issue due to the circumstances?
>>
>> The WG Chairs have no mechanism for opening up such a new issue.  There is no Last Call bug that we could associate such a new issue with and the date for the creation of issues for the current Last Call has passed.  For reference see the Last Call timeline [1] and the timetable for re-opening issues [2].
>>
>> /paulc
>>
>> [1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Jun/0315.html
>> [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jan/0099.html
>>
>> Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
>> 17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3
>> Tel: (425) 705-9596 Fax: (425) 936-7329
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Laura Carlson [mailto:laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 8:09 AM
>> To: Sam Ruby
>> Cc: Leif Halvard Silli; Maciej Stachowiak; Paul Cotton; HTML
>> Accessibility Task Force; public-html@w3.org
>> Subject: Re: hypothetical question on longdesc
>>
>> Hi Sam,
>>
>>>> Including an attribute or element in HTML5 is a SEPARATE issue than
>>>> modifying an attribute or element after a decision to include it in
>>>> the spec has been adjudicated.
>>>
>>> There is no such separate issue being tracked for HTML5, and we are
>>> past last call.
>>
>> That is a very sad state of affairs. Would the Chairs' consider opening such an Issue due to the circumstances?
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Laura
>
> --
> Laura L. Carlson

-- 
Laura L. Carlson
Received on Tuesday, 10 April 2012 11:59:11 GMT

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