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{minutes} HTML WG telecon 2011-02-17: Issues, handling of features, task force reports

From: Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 02:30:15 +0000
To: "public-html-wg-announce@w3.org" <public-html-wg-announce@w3.org>
Message-ID: <E3EACD022300B94D88613639CF4E25F8186F6671@TK5EX14MBXC138.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
The minutes for the Feb 17 Weekly WG meeting are below and at:

http://www.w3.org/2011/02/17-html-wg-minutes.html



/paulc



Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada

17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3

Tel: (425) 705-9596 Fax: (425) 936-7329



[Description: W3C]<http://www.w3.org/>

- DRAFT -
HTML Weekly Teleconference
17 Feb 2011

Agenda<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2011JanMar/0014.html>

Attendees
Present
Regrets
Chair
Maciej Stachowiak
Scribe
rubys
Contents

  *   Topics<http://www.w3.org/2011/02/17-html-wg-minutes.html#agenda>
     *   ACTION items due by Thursday, February 17<http://www.w3.org/2011/02/17-html-wg-minutes.html#item01>
     *   New Issues This Week<http://www.w3.org/2011/02/17-html-wg-minutes.html#item02>
     *   Items Closed Last Week<http://www.w3.org/2011/02/17-html-wg-minutes.html#item03>
     *   Items Closing This Week<http://www.w3.org/2011/02/17-html-wg-minutes.html#item04>
     *   Items Closing Next Week<http://www.w3.org/2011/02/17-html-wg-minutes.html#item05>
     *   New Calls this week<http://www.w3.org/2011/02/17-html-wg-minutes.html#item06>
     *   New Surveys this week<http://www.w3.org/2011/02/17-html-wg-minutes.html#item07>
     *   Decisions this week<http://www.w3.org/2011/02/17-html-wg-minutes.html#item08>
     *   Task Force Reports<http://www.w3.org/2011/02/17-html-wg-minutes.html#item09>
     *   Other Business<http://www.w3.org/2011/02/17-html-wg-minutes.html#item10>
     *   Accessibility Task Force<http://www.w3.org/2011/02/17-html-wg-minutes.html#item11>
  *   Summary of Action Items<http://www.w3.org/2011/02/17-html-wg-minutes.html#ActionSummary>

________________________________

<CIA-1> html-spec: 03ianh@340c8d12-0b0e-0410-8428-c7bf67bfef74 * ac72b0097488 r5897 10/ (index complete.html source): [e] (0) typo

<pimpbot> changes: hixie: typo (whatwg r5898) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2011Feb/0109.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 12072] Comments before <!DOCTYPE html> should be forbidden <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0737.html>

<CIA-1> html-spec: 03ianh@340c8d12-0b0e-0410-8428-c7bf67bfef74 * 155636646e41 r5898 10/ (index complete.html source):

<CIA-1> html-spec: [giow] (1) Make it so moving a video around the DOM doesn't pause it. Also make innerHTML work for <video> elements.

<CIA-1> html-spec: Fixing http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11068

<pimpbot> 1111068: contributor, P3, RESOLVED FIXED, 13We should not pause() if the element is removed from a document and then reinserted in the same task, since otherwise that could cause stuttering when moving a video from one frame to another, and would break autoplay when used with innerHTML.

<pimpbot> changes: hixie: Make it so moving a video around the DOM doesn't pause it. Also make innerHTML work for <video> elements. (whatwg r5899) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2011Feb/0110.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 12094] Switch from relying on DOM Level 3 Core to Web DOM Core <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0743.html> 4** [Bug 12091] HTMLdocument named-item getter and object fallback <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0742.html> 4** "[Bug 11068] We should not pause() if the element is removed from a document and then reinserted in the same task, since otherwise that could cause

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 12101] New: "Structured clone" can be passed an object with a hostile getter that returns an object identical to itself; "structured clone" does not prevent such an infinite regression. <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0747.html> 4** "[Bug 12099] Input type=url: value range" (2 messages in thread) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0746.html> 4** [Bug 12096] Firefox us

<pimpbot> planet: Chris Pearce: Firefox 4 video decoder architecture <11http://blog.pearce.org.nz/2011/02/firefox-4-video-decoder-architecture.html> 4** Mike Marchak: Google Plugin for Eclipse and GWT 2.2 now available <11http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/blogspot/Dcni/~3/FnTz3DSmS_I/google-plugin-for-eclipse-and-gwt-22.html<http://feedproxy.google.com/%7Er/blogspot/Dcni/%7E3/FnTz3DSmS_I/google-plugin-for-eclipse-and-gwt-22.html>>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 11666] The value sanitisation algorithm should be clear that it sets the value property to the sanitized form. This is explicit in several cases but implicit in several cases. <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0750.html> 4** [Bug 12091] HTMLdocument named-item getter and object fallback <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0749.html> 4** [Bug 12094] Switch from relying on

<CIA-1> html-spec: 03ianh@340c8d12-0b0e-0410-8428-c7bf67bfef74 * d923aa0fbd24 r5899 10/ (index complete.html source):

<CIA-1> html-spec: [giow] (2) Make the initial state of selections and cursors platform-specific.

<CIA-1> html-spec: Fixing http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11483

<CIA-1> html-spec: 03ianh@340c8d12-0b0e-0410-8428-c7bf67bfef74 * 46dae0ce1e75 r5900 10/ (index complete.html source): [e] (0) typo

<pimpbot> 1111483: contributor, P3, RESOLVED FIXED, 13What should selectionStart/End return when there is no selection and no cursor? e.g. display:none

<CIA-1> html-spec: 03ianh@340c8d12-0b0e-0410-8428-c7bf67bfef74 * ad9ddf101fb2 r5901 10/ (index complete.html source):

<CIA-1> html-spec: [c] (0) Define that <button value=''> (empty) is ok.

<CIA-1> html-spec: Fixing http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11499

<pimpbot> 1111499: mike, P2, RESOLVED FIXED, 13make clear whether value attribute on input[type='button'] element can be empty

<CIA-1> html-spec: 03ianh@340c8d12-0b0e-0410-8428-c7bf67bfef74 * b096de225e9b r5902 10/ (index complete.html source):

<CIA-1> html-spec: [giowt] (0) The best representation of something should really be a valid one too.

<CIA-1> html-spec: Fixing http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11706

<pimpbot> 1111706: contributor, P3, RESOLVED FIXED, 13Why -00:00 instead of +00:00 when time zone is UTC?

<CIA-1> html-spec: 03ianh@340c8d12-0b0e-0410-8428-c7bf67bfef74 * 200b1b9a2dd6 r5903 10/ (index complete.html source):

<CIA-1> html-spec: [giow] (2) mention /favicon.ico

<CIA-1> html-spec: Fixing http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11815

<pimpbot> 1111815: contributor, P3, RESOLVED FIXED, 13should add something about /favicon.ico too

<pimpbot> changes: hixie: mention /favicon.ico (whatwg r5904) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2011Feb/0115.html> 4** hixie: The best representation of something should really be a valid one too. (whatwg r5903) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2011Feb/0114.html> 4** hixie: Define that <button value=''> (empty) is ok. (whatwg r5902) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2011Feb/0113.html> 4

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 12103] New: currently no browser supports seamless attribute on iframes, frameborder and scrolling should not cause validation errors in HTML5. They should be allowed but not recommended possibly. <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0759.html> 4** "[Bug 11815] should add something about /favicon.ico too" (2 messages in thread) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0758.html> 4

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10830] i18n comment : Please add support for rb <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0760.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 12072] Comments before <!DOCTYPE html> should be forbidden <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0761.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 12100] UAs do not actually convert DOMStrings to sequences of Unicode characters. Test case: data:text/html,<!doctype html><script>document.documentElement.title = "\ud800"; alert(document.documentElement.title.charCodeAt(0));</script> Expected 65533, got 5529 <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0762.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 9429] Unobsolete the <strike> element - instead suggest how to use it <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0763.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 12104] Typo: will will <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0766.html> 4** [Bug 12104] New: Type: will will <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0765.html> 4** [Bug 11483] What should selectionStart/End return when there is no selection and no cursor? e.g. display:none <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0764.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 11706] Why -00:00 instead of +00:00 when time zone is UTC? <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0767.html>

<pimpbot> planet: clarista: Bonjour WoMoz : Dare 2B Digital <11http://bonjourmozilla.fr/?post/2011/02/17/Bonjour-WoMoz-%3A-Dare-2B-Digital>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 12106] New: 1. <quote> <!DOCTYPE HTML> </quote> Is this declaration part of an html document? Or is this part of a Document Type Definition (DTD)? Where are DTDs for html documents defined? 2. <title> Resource metadata management </title> <quote> A Document is always <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0768.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 12029] Define a process for "particularly exceptional circumstances" <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0770.html> 4** [Bug 11984] Simplify <video> for implementors and authors by ignoring the Content-Type HTTP header <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0769.html>

<pimpbot> changes: sam: ISSUE-144 (conforming-u): Call for revisions <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2011Feb/0116.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 11984] Simplify <video> for implementors and authors by ignoring the Content-Type HTTP header <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0773.html> 4** [Bug 12107] New: mp3 not supported <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0772.html> 4** [Bug 12072] Comments before <!DOCTYPE html> should be forbidden <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0771.html>

<pimpbot> changes: sam: Wrong month <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2011Feb/0118.html> 4** sam: Change status for issue 130 <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2011Feb/0117.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 12107] mp3 not supported <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0775.html> 4** "[Bug 11984] Simplify <video> for implementors and authors by ignoring the Content-Type HTTP header" (2 messages in thread) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0774.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 12107] mp3 not supported" (2 messages in thread) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0776.html>

<pimpbot> planet: Bruce: Snakeoil, local government, accessibility and HTML5 <11http://www.brucelawson.co.uk/2011/snakeoil-local-government-accessibility-and-html5/>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 12029] Define a process for "particularly exceptional circumstances" <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0777.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 11984] Simplify <video> for implementors and authors by ignoring the Content-Type HTTP header <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0778.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 12110] New: The margin note shows no support but at least IE 8 and Firefox 3.6 support dropzone=link for an image. So does Chrome 9, which also supports dropzone=move (when the origin has editable content). <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0779.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 11984] Simplify <video> for implementors and authors by ignoring the Content-Type HTTP header <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0780.html>

trackbot, start meeting

<trackbot> Date: 17 February 2011

<pimpbot> Title: {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2011-02-17: Issues, handling of features, task force reports from Maciej Stachowiak on 2011-02-17 (public-html-wg-announce@w3.org from January to March 2011) (at lists.w3.org)

<scribe> scribenick: rubys

<mjs> hi all

<mjs> dialing now

<pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 11984] Simplify <video> for implementors and authors by ignoring the Content-Type HTTP header" (2 messages in thread) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0781.html>

ACTION items due by Thursday, February 17

mjs: none

New Issues This Week

mjs: none

Items Closed Last Week

ISSUE-127?

<trackbot> ISSUE-127 -- Simplify characterization of link types -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/127

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-127: Simplify characterization of link types - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

mjs: closed on Feb 12

ISSUE-130?

<trackbot> ISSUE-130 -- allow tables to be used for layout purposes -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/130

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-130: allow tables to be used for layout purposes - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

mjs: also closed Feb 12

ISSUE-150?

<trackbot> ISSUE-150 -- consider reducing verbosity when talking about code points -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/150

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-150: consider reducing verbosity when talking about code points - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

mjs: closed Feb 12

Items Closing This Week

ISSUE-122?

<trackbot> ISSUE-122 -- alt text and description for Lady of Shalott example -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/122

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-122: alt text and description for Lady of Shalott example - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

mjs: we did get some revised change proposals
... we are seeing if they can be reconciled

ISSUE-129?

<trackbot> ISSUE-129 -- replace or modify the ARIA section of the HTML5 spec -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/129

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-129: replace or modify the ARIA section of the HTML5 spec - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

mjs: poll closes today

Items Closing Next Week

ISSUE-131?

<trackbot> ISSUE-131 -- Should we add a caret location API to canvas, or is the focus API sufficient? -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/131

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-131: Should we add a caret location API to canvas, or is the focus API sufficient? - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

mjs: CP due Feb 21

ISSUE-152?

<trackbot> ISSUE-152 -- Handling of additional tracks of a multitrack audio/video resource -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/152

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-152: Handling of additional tracks of a multitrack audio/video resource - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

mjs: also due Feb 21

ISSUE-155?

<trackbot> ISSUE-155 -- make <table border="1" cellpadding="10" cellspacing="0"> conforming -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/155

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-155: make conforming - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

ISSUE-156?

<trackbot> ISSUE-156 -- Permit closing tag for new, void elements - for legacy compatibility = XHTML alignment -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/156

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-156: Permit closing tag for new, void elements - for legacy compatibility = XHTML alignment - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

mjs: change proposals due Feb 21 on these items
... there has been a suggestion to move Issue-152 to be a last call issue. No decision has been made. We continue to seek change proposals.

ISSUE-157?

<trackbot> ISSUE-157 -- A comprehensive, semantic image map specification -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/157

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-157: A comprehensive, semantic image map specification - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

ISSUE-158?

<trackbot> ISSUE-158 -- HTML4's content-model for <object> should continue -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/158

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-158: HTML4s content-model for should continue - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

ISSUE-160?

<trackbot> ISSUE-160 -- Remove restriction on command element as part of a menu -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/160

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-160: Remove restriction on command element as part of a menu - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

ISSUE-161?

<trackbot> ISSUE-161 -- Create document defining mappings from html elements to platform accessibility apis -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/161

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-161: Create document defining mappings from html elements to platform accessibility apis - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

mjs: change proposals are due on these four on Feb 23rd
... this should complete the set of pre-last call issues

New Calls this week

ISSUE-144?

<trackbot> ISSUE-144 -- <u> should be conforming -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/144

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-144: should be conforming - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

mjs: we've asked for revised change proposals no later than Feb 24
... the CP we received was unclear (had two proposals) and one part is out of scope
... if we don't receive an acceptable revision, we will move to close without prejudice

New Surveys this week

mjs: none

Decisions this week

mjs: none

Task Force Reports

mjs: Testing Task Force?

<J_Voracek> regrets

krisk: February turning out to be a busy month, 40+ posts to the list
... we met as planned; the schedule seems to work for everyone and will continue through August
... we asked for some feedback on some attribute tests

mjs: thanks for that update
... Accessibility Task Force

rubys: I have word that the A11y TF meeting is running over

mjs: perhaps we can come back to this item at the end

Other Business

mjs: Media element content-type handling

http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11984

<pimpbot> 1111984: contributor, P3, REOPENED, 13Simplify <video> for implementors and authors by ignoring the Content-Type HTTP header

mjs: it was controversial and there is disagreement with the implementers, so for now we have REOPENED the bug
... it may be an example where we ask for a revert
... this bug can continue as an issue during the last call
... any questions or comments?

julian: when will you decide on whether or not you are asking for a revert

mjs: for now, it is just a suggestion; we will decide in a couple of days at most
... any other questions or comments?
... Handling of feature additions to HTML5

http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12029

<pimpbot> 1112029: rubys, P2, NEW, 13Define a process for "particularly exceptional circumstances"

mjs: one of the precipitating changes was the addition of atob and btoa to the spec
... this was added without discussion in the working group
... as we advance to maturity models, changes impeded our progress. The WG can chose to do so, but should not be done without notice to the group and a fair opportunity for dicussion
... I put in some text in the bug with our expectations
... sam has since then responded
... any questions or comments?

<plh> is the a11y call still running?

Accessibility Task Force

janina: the meeting went long, people were upset that longdesc would not be considered immediately
... the expectations are now clearer: all new issues will be treated as last call issues.
... we have some new action items on ARIA
... the media group is going to make sure that we have a stake in the ground by next week on how to handle binary
... we seem to have diversified into 8 different approaches, some are similar, some are divergent
... this spans multiple lists; this is probably good in that it means that we will get a robust solution, but is an issue with respect to the timeline
... my expectation is that this will be a useful development for the spec; we will meet the timeline and will likely submit counter proposals
... it is not just A11y that needs to have this handled; i18n also cares very much
... that's all I have to add today

mjs: there are two issues of notable interest with deadlines looming....

issue-152?

<trackbot> ISSUE-152 -- Handling of additional tracks of a multitrack audio/video resource -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/152

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-152: Handling of additional tracks of a multitrack audio/video resource - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

issue-161?

<trackbot> ISSUE-161 -- Create document defining mappings from html elements to platform accessibility apis -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/161

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-161: Create document defining mappings from html elements to platform accessibility apis - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

mjs: both are due Feb 23

<mjs> issue-131?

<trackbot> ISSUE-131 -- Should we add a caret location API to canvas, or is the focus API sufficient? -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/131

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-131: Should we add a caret location API to canvas, or is the focus API sufficient? - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

janina: I will follow up with Rich

<Julian> other other business: reminder that ISSUE-124 was supposed to get a survey two weeks ago

mjs: that about covers it
... any volunteers to scribe?

janina: advance regrets, I will not be attending the next two weeks

mjs: It would be best to name somebody to give A11y updates in two weeks

janina: Mike can help

mjs: hopefully we can find somebody to scribe at next week's call

<MikeSmith> yeah, I can do the a11y TF update on this call 2 weeks from now

rrsagent: publish minutes

Summary of Action Items
[End of minutes]
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$Date: 2011/02/17 17:35:32 $
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