- From: Francis McCabe <fgm@fla.fujitsu.com>
- Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 12:53:52 -0700
- To: Dave Hollander <dmh@contivo.com>
- Cc: www-ws-arch@w3.org
More-or-less, except that <<resource>> etc. may well be defined within our system. Frank On Monday, June 2, 2003, at 12:03 PM, Dave Hollander wrote: > > If I understand, it would look something like: > > A << resource >> << is-a >> network << thingy >> that > can have an << identifier >> > > implying that resource, is-a, thingy, and identifier are defined > outside of our project. > > Yes? > > dave > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Francis McCabe [mailto:fgm@fla.fujitsu.com] > Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 12:28 PM > To: Cutler, Roger (RogerCutler) > Cc: www-ws-arch@w3.org > Subject: Re: hasa in UML > > > > Roger: > Thanks for the vote of confidence! > > I apologize abut the guillemots. > > It is a standard UML way of naming things. Its official name is > stereotype. Essentially, if you want to have a standard relationship, > or a standard class etc. (but its less common there), you can give an > independent definition of it and then use it. Where you do use it, you > enclose the name in guillemots (a kind of double chevron character) to > signify that the name has an independent definition. > > Frank > > On Monday, June 2, 2003, at 11:12 AM, Cutler, Roger (RogerCutler) > wrote: > >> Frank: >> >> Once again you have gone over my head -- what the heck is meant by >> "guillemots" in this context? It's come up previously in this thread, >> but now it seems to be a serious suggestion. The only meaning for this >> word that I can find is a bird -- a narrow billed auk, to be exact, >> which is an arctic bird that looks pretty penguin-like to me but >> apparently it flies. >> >> Although you have never in any way implied such, I am personally quite >> willing to recognize you as an expert with core compentency somewhere >> in >> the area of these formal descriptions and let you get on with it. >> Particularly since you seem to be willing not only to state opinions >> but >> also to spend a lot of time and effort actually DOING things that way. >> That counts for a lot in my book. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Francis McCabe [mailto:fgm@fla.fujitsu.com] >> Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 12:44 PM >> To: Cutler, Roger (RogerCutler) >> Cc: www-ws-arch@w3.org >> Subject: Re: hasa in UML >> >> >> Roger: >> >> Just to answer the question about the origin of is-a and has-a... >> >> It turns out that properly defining these is pretty tricky. Chris's >> defn found 14+ definitions of have, and even the first definition >> >> To be in possession of: already had a car. >> >> is the subject of many PhD theses! >> >> I would say that 90+% of people would start with the taxonomic POV of >> is-a; where the fundamental starting point is that there are a bunch >> of >> `things' out there that need to be classified. However, the logic POV >> also has a long history. >> >> A really good book on this is "knowledge representation" by John Sowa. >> He is something of a maverick due to his passionate defense of a >> British philosopher/logician John Pierce. >> >> My definitions were colored by my preferences, but my definition of >> has-a was an attempt to rationally reconstruct the UML modeler's >> concept of aggregation. As it happens, my PhD was in this area. It was >> published by Prentice-Hall as "Logic and Objects". >> >> I have had a number of conversations about UML with Jim Odell, one of >> the founders of the OO modeling movement. He was also a co-chair of >> the >> OMG TC that steered the original UML through (I can't recall its >> name). >> He recommends using guillemots for our purposes. >> >> My brief was to look at UML, and to see if we can use it straight. I >> think the answer is that we can use it; but not 'straight'. >> >> Frank >> >> >> >> >> On Friday, May 30, 2003, at 07:54 PM, Cutler, Roger (RogerCutler) >> wrote: >> >>> Good grief. >>> >>> I had assumed from Martin's posting that aggregation is a well-known, >>> standard term in UML. If it is, and you have just missed it, perhaps >>> he should chime in. If not ... >>> >>> If not, perhaps somebody -- anybody -- could give us some rough idea >>> what "has a" means to UML people? I recall that the UML folk seemed >>> to be real clear (well, at least Martin seemed to be real clear) that >>> usages of "has a" consistent with your definition were inconsistent >>> with UML usage -- so surely SOMEBODY must have some idea why or >>> how???? If it is clearly different, could somebody give a hint in >>> what way it is different? >>> >>> If not -- could we please just forget about it? >>> >>> On another tack -- did your definitions of "is-a" and "has-a" just >>> come out of your imagination, or are they consistent with some >>> standard usage in a discipline other than UML? If the latter, would >>> it be possible to provide citations? >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Francis McCabe [mailto:fgm@fla.fujitsu.com] >>> Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 4:42 PM >>> To: www-ws-arch@w3.org >>> Subject: hasa in UML >>> >>> >>> >>> UML does not, in fact, has a direct notion of aggregation. >>> >>> There are three concepts that might be pressed into the service of >>> aggregation: >>> >>> Association (3.41 and following) >>> Composite Object (3.40) >>> Collaboration diagrams (3.65 and following) >>> >>> Association is simply a relationship. There is no additional >>> semantics >> >>> built-in. We can define our own form of association called has-a (but >>> we are trying to avoid that right?) >>> >>> "A composite object represents a high-level object made of tightly >>> bound parts. This is an instance of a composite class, which implies >>> the composition aggregation between the class and its parts. A >>> composite object is similar to (but simpler and more restricted than) >>> a collaboration; ..." >>> >>> I do not think that this meets our needs. It is not accurate to say >>> that a service is composed of X + an identifier. >>> >>> Collaborations on the other hand are not what is going on either: >>> >>> "A collaboration is used for describing the realization of an >>> Operation or Classifier." >>> >>> Frank >>> >>> On Friday, May 30, 2003, at 02:10 PM, Cutler, Roger (RogerCutler) >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Well, that's progress of a sort. Now what do "generalization" and >>>> "aggregation" mean, and how does this differ from the current >>>> definition? >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >
Received on Monday, 2 June 2003 15:55:01 UTC