- From: Francis McCabe <fgm@fla.fujitsu.com>
- Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 14:09:02 -0700
- To: www-ws-arch@w3.org
Log file opened at: 8/29/02 12:24:44 PM
#ws-arch: frankmcca mchampion dbooth
*** End of /NAMES list.
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frankmcca: hi
*** mnot (~mnot@adsl-67-119-69-242.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) has joined
channel #ws-arch
dbooth: Hi Frank!
*** Zakim (~&rrs-brid@tux.w3.org) has joined channel #ws-arch
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RRSAgent is logging
dbooth: zakim, this is arch
Zakim: sorry, dbooth, I do not see a conference named 'arch'
mnot was just wondering where our trusty friends were...
dbooth: zakim, what conferences?
Zakim: I see no active conferences
mnot: zakim, this is ws-arch
Zakim: sorry, mnot, I do not see a conference named 'ws-arch'
dbooth: zakim, this will be arch
Zakim: ok, dbooth
mchampion: Not quite as smart as SimOne, is he?
--> mchampion Mike did you get the email I just sent to you and Dave
hollander?
dbooth: You just gotta know how to talk to him!
*** dougb (~doug.bunt@192.18.177.217) has joined channel #ws-arch
Zakim: WS_ArchWG()3:30PM has now started
Zakim: +DavidB
Zakim: + +1.408.732.aaaa
Zakim: +??P1
mchampion: Mark Nottingham, who do you work for? I need to update the
roll ...
*** Roger (~RogerCutl@chvpkntproxy2.chevrontexaco.com) has joined
channel #ws-arch
dougb: zakim, ??P1 is probably me
Zakim: +Dougb?; got it
frankmcca: zakim, I am P1
Zakim: sorry, frankmcca, I do not see a party named 'P1'
Zakim: +Mark_A_Jones
mnot: BEA - I'm David's alternate. (have been trying to get the
rego right with Hugo)
Zakim: +??P4
frankmcca: zzakim, I am aaaa
*** DaveH (~dmh@vsat-148-63-77-247.c002.t7.mrt.starband.net) has joined
channel #ws-arch
dbooth: zakim, aaaa is Frank
Zakim: +Frank; got it
Roger: zakim, I am ??P4
Zakim: +Roger; got it
Roger: zakim, who is here
Zakim: Roger, you need to end that query with '?'
Roger: zakim, you are a picky son of a gun.
Zakim: I don't understand 'you are a picky son of a gun.', Roger.
Try /msg Zakim help
Zakim: +??P5
mchampion: Thanks, Mark. I have that in a message somewhere ...
Roger: zakim, who is here?
Zakim: On the phone I see DavidB, Frank, Dougb?, Mark_A_Jones,
Roger, ??P5
Zakim: On IRC I see DaveH, Roger, dougb, RRSAgent, Zakim, mnot,
frankmcca, mchampion, dbooth
dbooth thinks zakim teaches grammar on the side.
dougb: me thinks that was a question
Zakim: +Hugo
Zakim: +Dave_Hollander
Zakim: +??P8
Zakim: -??P8
Zakim: +Sinisa_Zimek
Zakim: +Colleen_Evans
Zakim: +??P9
Zakim: +R_Radhika
Zakim: + +1.650.875.aabb
*** Kreger (~kreger@bi01p1.nc.us.ibm.com) has joined channel #ws-arch
Zakim: +??P12
mnot: Zakim, ??P12 is mnot
DaveH: zakim, who named you?
Zakim: +Mnot; got it
Zakim: I don't understand your question, DaveH.
DaveH: zakim, who is here?
Zakim: On the phone I see DavidB, Frank, Dougb?, Mark_A_Jones,
Roger, ??P5, Hugo (muted), Dave_Hollander, Sinisa_Zimek, Colleen_Evans,
??P9, R_Radhika, +1.650.875.aabb, Mnot
Zakim: On IRC I see Kreger, DaveH, Roger, dougb, RRSAgent, Zakim,
mnot, frankmcca, mchampion, dbooth
Zakim: +??P13
dbooth: Scribe: Frank
dbooth: Chairs: Mike Champion & Dave Hollander
frankmcca: zakim, I am frank
Zakim: ok, frankmcca, I now associate you with Frank
frankmcca: agenda:
frankmcca: charter proposal
frankmcca: wsci submission is a starting point?
frankmcca: f2f agenda
Kreger: Chris will try to join later
Zakim: +??P14
frankmcca: ws desc group overlap for f2f
frankmcca: minimal overlap with web services wg expected
Zakim: -Colleen_Evans
Zakim: +??P15
Zakim: -??P15
frankmcca: requirements discussion to a close, to get closure on
requirements document
Zakim: +??P8
frankmcca: f2f: choreography wg, workshop
frankmcca: reading list
*** MarkB (~mbaker@cpu2164.adsl.bellglobal.com) has joined channel
#ws-arch
Zakim: +MarkB
Zakim: + +1.617.439.aacc
frankmcca: mark baker to talk about about REST?
frankmcca: We would like to give a presentation on business related
aspects of web services
frankmcca: :-)
DaveH: Frank will be given time for a presentation prior to
covering the requirements document
DaveH: Frank is encouraged to begin discussion on email list
regarding requirments.
DaveH: Mark and DaveO will be given 1 hour for presentation at f2f
frankmcca: f2f agenda: requirements phase, architecture phase
frankmcca: usage scenario document progress
frankmcca: status of usage scenario doc - published at end of July
working draft
frankmcca: hugo: some parts need more work. editorial comments.
frankmcca: security usage scenarios needed
frankmcca: status: does not represent consensue yet.
frankmcca: half day session on usage scenario
frankmcca: technical issues with doc: improve consistency
frankmcca: please contribute text
*** chrisf (~chrisferr@231-29-189-66.wo.cpe.charter-ne.com) has joined
channel #ws-arch
Zakim: +Chris_Ferris
chrisf: howdy
frankmcca: glossary: definitions will need discussion. Alternate
editor required?
frankmcca: glossary needs organization
chrisf: the important thing missing is attribution/biblio!!!!!
chrisf: zakim, agenda?
Zakim: I see nothing on the agenda
frankmcca: heather: management asepcts of WSA, sometime during 2nd/3rd
day
frankmcca: f2f agenda summary:
frankmcca: requirements doc, presnetations by Mark Baker & Frank
McCabe, architecture itself, management issues, usage document, glossary
Zakim: +??P32
frankmcca: hugo: architecture doc. MEPs in intro, in SOAP section, in
WSDL, how should they be related to each other
dougb chris, Agenda wasn't described to Zakim but includes
f2f agenda, choreography charter proposal and WSCI as starting point,
now discussing things not on agenda :-)
Zakim: -R_Radhika
chrisf is choreog wg charter on the f2f agenda?
DaveH: Yes, it is.
chrisf: what about RM?
chrisf lol! I can read minds:)
frankmcca: roger: relaible messaging must be in the requirements
document
DaveH: personally, I agree. RM is essential.
chrisf me too:)
frankmcca: AC017 may be dropped, in which case we must put reliable
messaging in specifically
DaveH: Action: chairs to add RM and Management as sub-topic of
during the architecture document session
DaveH: Action: Roger to restrucutre AC017 to capture RM but drop
other items
dbooth: Frank == Francis McCabe, Fujitsu
*DaveH* If you watn, I will scribe
frankmcca: Am I that bad a scribe?
frankmcca: :-)
*DaveH* my distraction is done...always at least two things!
DaveH: NO! >)
chrisf: ACTION: chairs to add RM and Management as sub-topic of
during the architecture document session
RRSAgent records action 1
chrisf: ACTION: Roger to restrucutre AC017 to capture RM but drop
other items
RRSAgent records action 2
frankmcca: The WSDL harverseting efforts not reflected in the WSA
document currently and the processing model is not yet clear in the
document
chrisf: ACTION: Hao to republish WSDL harvesting message URIs
RRSAgent records action 3
*DaveH* NO! Just didn't see the actions....sorry.
Zakim: -??P13
--> DaveH I'm new to this game. I'll try to mark them properly
*DaveH* thanks...it is the best way to keep mike and I honest
frankmcca: text for wsa doc welcome. preferably drop in text :-)
chrisf: people sending emails recommending text for specs should
copy w3c-wsa-editors@w3.org so we can track these better
frankmcca: ACTION: daveH to provide top down text
RRSAgent records action 4
frankmcca: charter for choreography wg has been published privately
frankmcca: CG charter topic next tuesday (choreography WG charter)
chrisf thinks it is too broad
frankmcca: scoping statement for choreography WG.
Zakim: -Sinisa_Zimek
frankmcca: discuss charter formally next week. Will have been
discussed by CG. f2f can react to scoping section and overall document.
frankmcca: must be done by f2f.
frankmcca: eric: Iona will have specific comments to charter.
frankmcca: current charter is open, additional constraints will be
considered
frankmcca: ACTION: all comments to proposed charter asap
RRSAgent records action 5
frankmcca: mark baker feels its not needed, but will not object to
chartering group.
mnot: +q
Zakim wonders where q is
mnot: q+
Zakim sees Mnot on the speaker queue
chrisf: ack mnot
Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
frankmcca: ACTION: workshop discussion on choreography in f2f agenda
RRSAgent records action 6
chrisf if discussion of workshop is F2F item, then soonest
it could be held is mid November
frankmcca: relationship between the CWG (Choreography WG) and WSA WG;
substantive issue of how to run the workshop, and the relationship
between choreography and WSA itself
mnot: q+
Zakim sees Mnot on the speaker queue
frankmcca: 8 weeks needed to establishing CWG from f2f
DaveH: p-
DaveH: q-
Zakim sees Mnot on the speaker queue
mchampion: ack mnot
Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
frankmcca: mnot: potentially destructive to hold a workshop to decide
whether to have a CWG or not
frankmcca: It may not be a workshop from W3C process POV
DaveH: q+
Zakim sees DaveH on the speaker queue
dbooth: Frank, what you're describing sure sounds like a workshop!
frankmcca: Ahh, its all in the legal technicalities
chrisf: we discussed w/s to be held concurrent with chartering
process and not serially
chrisf: on last week's call
dbooth:
http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Process-20010719/events.html#GAEvents
frankmcca: workshop targetted to bootstrapping the CWG as effectively
as possible
frankmcca: What are the dangers of halding a workshop?
DaveH: ack daveh
Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Zakim: - +1.617.439.aacc
frankmcca: dangers: from W3C has a specific function.
frankmcca: dangers: from W3C a workshop has a specific function.
frankmcca: seems to be consensus that CWG is a good thing. The
proposed charter a good starting point
frankmcca: ACTION: all anyone willing to edit glossary, please contact
editors.
RRSAgent records action 7
frankmcca: dbooth volunteers
frankmcca: WSCI submission
frankmcca: W3C has directed the WSCI submission to WSAWG for
consideration
frankmcca: WSCI desrerves some discussion
frankmcca: in this WG
frankmcca: Is this a template for the CWG?
frankmcca: What CSFs does WSCI fullfill?
dbooth: Incidentally, the lead time requirements for a F2F meeting
are the same as for a Workshop:
http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Process-20010719/
groups.html#GeneralMeetings (both 8 weeks)
frankmcca: WSCI is explicit input to proposed CWG, what are we trying
to decide in this group now?
DaveH: http://www.w3.org/Submission/2002/04/Comment
frankmcca: Submission was made to WSA WG
dbooth: Dave, in what page did you find the broken link?
DaveH: http://www.w3.org/TR/wsci/
frankmcca: We should make some progress in understanding relationship
between choreography and rest of WSA. Decisions not being here,
education is the topic at hand
Zakim sees We, Should, Make, Some, Progress, In,
Understanding, Relationship, Between, Choreography, Rest, Of, WSA.,
Decisions, Not, Being, Here, Education, Is, The, Topic, At on the
Zakim ... speaker queue
dougb: http://www.w3.org/Submission/2002/04/ link on same page is
also broken (forbidden)
frankmcca: ??
dbooth: queue =
dbooth: Frank, you've confused zakim!
dbooth: q?
Zakim sees We, Should, Make, Some, Progress, In,
Understanding, Relationship, Between, Choreography, Rest, Of, WSA.,
Decisions, Not, Being, Here, Education, Is, The, Topic, At on the
Zakim ... speaker queue
DaveH: q?
Zakim sees We, Should, Make, Some, Progress, In,
Understanding, Relationship, Between, Choreography, Rest, Of, WSA.,
Decisions, Not, Being, Here, Education, Is, The, Topic, At on the
frankmcca: WSCI exists to replace hypertext as business interaction
DaveH: ack
Zakim ... speaker queue
DaveH: ack
frankmcca: zakim, q-
Zakim: I see We, Should, Make, Some, Progress, In, Understanding,
Relationship, Between, Choreography, Rest, Of, WSA., Decisions, Not,
Being, Here, Education, Is, The, Topic, At on the
Zakim: ... speaker queue
dbooth: queue=dbooth
Zakim sees Dbooth on the speaker queue
dbooth: q?
Zakim sees Dbooth on the speaker queue
dbooth: q-
Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
frankmcca: you don't follow links, you invoke methods
DaveH: frank, please note that it is one members position:
frankmcca: RESTocruteans
frankmcca: RESTocruateans
frankmcca: RESTocrusteans
frankmcca: Humans can deal with hypertext, programs can't
DaveH: another view: point is to write code that can konw what it
will be doing apriori
frankmcca: we should prejudice choreography from other inputs
frankmcca: we should NOT prejudice choreography from other inputs
dougb: q+
Zakim sees Dougb on the speaker queue
dougb: ack dougb
Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
mnot: q+
Zakim sees Mnot on the speaker queue
frankmcca: is anything wrong with our response to WSCI "we have
recommended chartering a CWG, and thanks"
frankmcca: More is needed to reflect a proper respective to the work
involved
frankmcca: BEA, Sun, Oracle(?) feels that a response along above lines
is fine
frankmcca: We shhould harvest WSCI for WSA
frankmcca: There is a use case in the WSCI doc, we should grab it?
frankmcca: ACTION: all, read the WSCI doc.
RRSAgent records action 8
dbooth: queue=
Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
frankmcca: Discuss at the next telecon
dougb: sorry, bye now
*** Signoff: dougb (User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby)
Zakim: -Dougb?
DaveH: next week, same bat time, real bat channel
Zakim: -Mark_A_Jones
DaveH: ACTION: chairs to add wsci doc to f2f reading list
RRSAgent records action 9
frankmcca: registration deadline is sept 1st
frankmcca: teleconference bridge - one request so far
DaveH: those who register late, are at the discression of the host
and are not likely to have food service
DaveH: ACTION: daveB will secure 5 dial in lines
RRSAgent records action 10
DaveH: ttfn
Zakim: -??P14
frankmcca: see you next week in full official mode
*** Signoff: DaveH (User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby)
Zakim: -??P5
Zakim: -Chris_Ferris
Zakim: -??P9
Zakim: -MarkB
Zakim: -??P8
Zakim: -Frank
Zakim: -Mnot
*** Signoff: Roger ()
frankmcca: I will email this out shortly
Zakim: -Hugo
Zakim: - +1.650.875.aabb
Zakim: -DavidB
Zakim: -Roger
Zakim: -??P32
Zakim: -Dave_Hollander
Zakim: WS_ArchWG()3:30PM has ended
chrisf: zakim, please excuse us
*** Zakim has left channel #ws-arch (Zakim)
chrisf: rrsagent, please excuse us
RRSAgent: I see 10 open action items:
RRSAgent: ACTION: chairs to add RM and Management as sub-topic of
during the architecture document session [1]
RRSAgent: recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2002/08/29-ws-arch-irc#T20-16-43
RRSAgent: ACTION: Roger to restrucutre AC017 to capture RM but drop
other items [2]
RRSAgent: recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2002/08/29-ws-arch-irc#T20-16-54
RRSAgent: ACTION: Hao to republish WSDL harvesting message URIs [3]
RRSAgent: recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2002/08/29-ws-arch-irc#T20-17-44
RRSAgent: ACTION: daveH to provide top down text [4]
RRSAgent: recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2002/08/29-ws-arch-irc#T20-20-57
RRSAgent: ACTION: all comments to proposed charter asap [5]
RRSAgent: recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2002/08/29-ws-arch-irc#T20-26-20
RRSAgent: ACTION: workshop discussion on choreography in f2f agenda
[6]
RRSAgent: recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2002/08/29-ws-arch-irc#T20-33-31
RRSAgent: ACTION: all anyone willing to edit glossary, please contact
editors. [7]
RRSAgent: recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2002/08/29-ws-arch-irc#T20-41-56
RRSAgent: ACTION: all, read the WSCI doc. [8]
RRSAgent: recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2002/08/29-ws-arch-irc#T20-57-15
RRSAgent: ACTION: chairs to add wsci doc to f2f reading list [9]
RRSAgent: recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2002/08/29-ws-arch-irc#T20-59-09
RRSAgent: ACTION: daveB will secure 5 dial in lines [10]
RRSAgent: recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2002/08/29-ws-arch-irc#T21-00-44
*** RRSAgent has left channel #ws-arch (RRSAgent)
chrisf: URI for IRC log is: http://www.w3.org/2002/08/29-ws-arch-irc
chrisf: david, can you please tweak the ACL member only? thanks!
dbooth: sure...
dbooth: done
*** Signoff: Kreger ()
Received on Thursday, 29 August 2002 17:09:54 UTC