- From: Evan Wallace <ewallace@cme.nist.gov>
- Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 18:28:58 -0400 (EDT)
- To: www-webont-wg@w3.org
Minutes of 19 Sept 2002 telecon: Executive Summary: DECISIONS: -Modified minutes for 12 Sept accepted as true record. -Dates for ftf5 will be 9-10 Jan. -Issue 2.2 closed as proposed by Peter Patel-Schneider. -ftf4 documents should be in final form by EDT Friday 27 Sept. NEW ACTIONS: ACTION: Jeff Heflin - produce a test case/use case for versioning feature and send it to the list. ACTION: Pat Hayes - update embedded semantics document and provide an appendix to point out the position that the semantics takes on Issues. ACTION: Authors of Working Drafts - summarize document changes to WOWG list. CONTINUED ACTIONS: ACTION: Carroll - update WG on networking for f2f ACTION: Hendler - Prepare talking points for press release. ACTION: Schreiber - review guide ACTION: Thompson - review guide ACTION: Obrst - review guide. ACTION: van Harmelen - send e-mail about foreign properties and issue 5.6 ACTION: Hayes - send e-mail opposing deprecation. ACTION: Hendler produce test for issue 4.2 ACTION: Guus to update UML document to reflect new Owl Lite ACTION: Mike Dean: will document how he's using RDF statement tags, and how to solve this. Does his solution satisfy the requirements in the requirements document? ACTION: Frank will come up with some more use cases (ontology merging). ACTION: Pat to create a sketch of an idea, for Issue 5.19 by next Tuesday. More detail: AGENDA: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Sep/0236.html IRC LOG: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/19-webont-irc Notation: The minutes below consist of the agenda with notes interspersed. Decisions and new actions are marked with a capitalized label. Other direct observed occurrences or utterances are put within <single angle brackets>. Observations that are radically summarized or paraphrased are in <<double angle brackets>> to warn of the personal perspective that may strongly influence them. 1) ADMIN (10 min) 1.1 Roll call Present: Borden, Carroll, Connolly, Dale, Eshelman, Finin, Gibbins, Hayes, Heflin, Horrocks, Klein, Lassila, McGuinness, Patel-Schneider, Sabbouh, Schreiber, M. Smith, Stein, ter Horst, Volz, Welty Regrets: Buswell, Dean, Hellman, Hendler, Miller, Obrst, Stanton, Van Harmelon, Yanosy 1.2 Minutes previous meeting RESOLVED: Accepted (with ammendments below) the following as a true record of Sept 12 telecon: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Sep/0172.html ammend attendance list as described in jjc email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Sep/0265.html and ammend the regrets list as described in Nick Gibbons email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Sep/0276.html> <seconded by Wallace, passed by acclamation> 1.3 Next telecon - Sep 26, per regular schedule <Dan C. offers regrets for next week> - Scribe for Sep 26 will be Raphael Volz - no telecon on Oct 3 1.4 Upcoming ftf meetings Bristol ftf4 update (Jeremy): http://www-uk.hpl.hp.com/people/jjc/webont/webontOct.html <Catering sorted out. Bus organized, leaving at 9:10. See email for schedule.> Update on ftf5 (chair, Ian) - dates: originally both 6-7 Jan and 9-10 Jan were options. In the tally we only included 9-10 Jan as dates, amongst other because Jim cannot make it on 6-7. Unless there are compelling reasons to reopen this, the chairs want to stick to Jan 9-10. <No opposition expressed in telecon.> RESOLVED: the dates for ftf5 will be Jan 9-10 - short discussion on facilities for remote access <Access grid range of possibilities: -full access grid use -video conference without grid -phone + webcam -just teleconference McGuiness would participate by grid. Ora Lassila (Boston) and Lynn Stein also? Ora has picture-tell, speaker phones, and direct connection. 8 people said they would go to NY if Welty hosted satellite meeting. However, he now believes he will attend the meeting in person. Deb has video teleconferencing facility, just no grid access. Ian suggests netmeeting style video conferencing. Some discussion about what is required for it and what it provides. People who want to use such access should express their preference in email to chairs and Ian.> 2) ACTION review: (10 min) ACTION: Carroll - update WG on networking for f2f CONTINUED ACTION: Hendler - Prepare talking points for press release. CONTINUED ACTION: Schreiber - review guide CONTINUED <partial review sent Sept 19 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Sep/0277.html> ACTION: Thompson - review guide CONTINUED <by the end of week> ACTION: Obrst - review guide. CONTINUED ACTION: Patel-Schneider - write up "syntactic" proposal for issue 5.6 DONE << not sure which mail message completed this action: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Sep/0289.html or http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Sep/0091.html ?>> ACTION: van Harmelen - send e-mail about foreign properties and issue 5.6 CONTINUED ACTION: Carroll - send e-mail on what is in an onto. DONE http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Sep/0175.html ACTION: Hayes - send e-mail opposing deprecation. CONTINUED ACTION: Hayes - send e-mail with text to propose the closure of issue 5.3. DONE http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Sep/0261.html ACTION: Schreiber - add classes as instances and literal/data values to agenda for 19th. DONE ACTION: Hendler produce test for issue 4.2 CONTINUED ACTION: Guus to update UML document to reflect new Owl Lite CONTINUED ACTION: Ian Horrocks will look at alternate arrangements for vtc (in Manchester for F2F5). DONE ACTION: Mike Dean: will document how he's using RDF statement tags, and how to solve this. Does his solution satisfy the requirements in the requirements document? CONTINUED ACTION: Frank will come up with some more use cases (ontology merging). CONTINUED ACTION: Ian to make a suggestion on how to solve this, adding properties to data values. DONE <<Don't know what "this" refers to. Can someone provide a URL to the message completing this?>> ACTION: Dan to elaborate his use cases/requirements on this. DONE http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Sep/0271.html> ACTION: Pat to create a sketch of an idea, for Issue 5.19 by next Tuesday. CONTINUED <<new deadline needed?>> ACTION: Pat to complete first document on embedding (and Peter and Pat to discuss this on phone to next telecon). Ian will send comments to Peter and Pat. CONTINUED <estimated to be complete this Friday Sept 21> 3) ISSUES (45-60 min.) 3.1 ISSUES 2.2 and 2.3 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/webont-issues.html#I2.2-Adding-Properties-to-Other-Instances http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/webont-issues.html#I2.3-Adding-Properties-to-Other-Classes Proposal by Peter Patel-Schneider to close Issue 2.2 with the same motivation as Issue 2.3: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Sep/0209.html <Guus seconded> RESOLVED <as Peter suggested, (see JHendler email) Mike Smith will affect this change in Issue doc> <Issue document change was already complete at the time of this writing according to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Sep/0281.htm> 3.2 ISSUE 5.6 - daml:imports as magic syntax http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/webont-issues.html#I5.6-daml:imports-as-magic-syntax Heflin's proposal (Sep 9): http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Sep/0089.html - status of debate: main options/decision points <Jeff Heflin summarized this issue at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Sep/0272.html> - actions for amended/new resolution <Jeff in favor of entailment based. Imports and Ontology dark to OWL. Meaning of referencing a class without importing it: import everything or nothing or invalid.> <Peter claims that Jeff's proposal is a complete overhaul of OWL (and Pat agrees, extending this to RDF and semantic web)> <Jonathon states that this will be hard for RDF> <Dan thinks that this can be done without a comprehension of this in the language. This doesn't change OWL or RDF. His tools already do this.> <Jonathon disagrees that Dan's mechanism actually does what is wanted and stays within RDF semantics> <Pat - Semantic compromise is available. Don't formalize what it means. All OWL knows about IMPORTS A is that these things are included but not understood> <Jeff - It would sort of be in the domain of discourse but you can't say other things about this.> <Raphael - Use XPointer for inclusion by pointing into the middle of the document.> <Dan - Still prefers no import statement.> <Mike - still worried about loops with includes.> <Jonathon - one could create some syntactic thing like Xincludes that _can_ tolerate loops.> <Jos agrees with Dan.> <Pat says we shouldn't even consider options restricting the use of non-imported objects.> <Resource references in this are document names and not indication of the document content> <Jonathan had to leave> <<Lots of alternatives discussed, but no agreement.>> <We will break up this issue into the four parts described. No one assigned the task.> 3.3 ISSUE 5.14 - Ontology versioning http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/webont-issues.html#I5.14-Ontology-versioning Heflin's proposal (Sep 9): http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Sep/0090.html - status of debate: main options/decision points - actions for amended/new resolution <Dan testcase All dolphins are animals in old ontology. If X is a dolphin in a new ontology, is it an animal if I haven't asserted this?> <<Lots of discussion on this (which I found confusing). Jeff seemed to be proposing simply that an ontology which is annotated as backwards compatible with an antecedent ontology essentially brings in the terms from the old ontology with their same meaning. Many questions were asked about this. Resulting in:>> NEW ACTION: Jeff Heflin to produce a test case/use case for versioning feature and send it to the list. <Completed already - see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Sep/0302.html> 3.4 ISSUE 5.3 Semantic layering http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/webont-issues.html#I5.3-Semantic-Layering - status of the embedding Approach to Layering - proposed resolution to be posted to list before telecon. <Pat- see yesterday's message on Issue 5.3 (#0261). It is a summary as to where I'm at on this. Peter should now be considered a co-author given his contributions.> <One distinguishes the OWL Universe and RDF Universe, then defines the relationship. OWL could have a more disciplined interpretation which leads to computational advantages. Relationshp between OWL Thing and RDFS Class and RDF property (closure conditions).> <Guus suggests the choice on this relationship could possibly be made by the user!? > <Peter has a Sept 11 version http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Sep/att-0136/01-part> <Ian pessimistic of success with embedded approach given the schedule for OWL. Peter acknowledges a possibility of success but also pessimistic.> NEW/MODIFIED ACTION: Pat Hayes to update document, adding an appendix to point out the position that the semantics takes on these issues. 3.5 ISSUE 5.1: Uniform treatment of literal/data values http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/webont-issues.html#I5.1-Uniform-treatment-of-literal-data-values See also message by chairs: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Sep/0008.html - state of discussion - actions to move forward <This was touched on within agenda item 3.4> 3.6 ISSUE 5.19: Classes as instances http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/webont-issues.html#I5.19-Classes-as-instances See also message by chairs: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Sep/0008.html - state of discussion - actions to move forward <This was touched on within agenda item 3.4> 4) Comments on WDs (10 min, editors) Summary and short discussion on comments received sofar on the three WDs. <This agenda item was not addressed due to time constraints. Guus asks that authors summarize changes in an email to the list.> NEW ACTION: Working draft authors to summarize changes in documents in email to WOWG list. 5) AOB (0-5 min) CHAIR DECISION - ftf4 Document lock down date: Documents for discussion at Bristol FTF to be in final form by the end of next week (noon EDT on Friday 27 September).
Received on Friday, 20 September 2002 18:29:03 UTC