W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > December 2017

Re: Shorthands resetting properties they cannot set

From: Daniel Glazman <daniel.glazman@disruptive-innovations.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 09:39:14 +0100
To: www-style@w3.org
Message-ID: <ab3c070d-598c-1449-d1fe-ebcfcb51694a@disruptive-innovations.com>
Le 15/12/2017 à 03:13, Florian Rivoal a écrit :

> If an author writes "border: thin red solid" (with the right specificity) and they don't get a thin red solid border, they will complain even more loudly. That's why the border shorthand has to reset things like border-image.

The number of authors hitting that case is so negligible compared to the
number of authors using the old border properties w/o border-image-
source I can't accept that argument. See below.

> I do not think we have the choice between a confusing solution and a non confusing solution. Both are confusing in different situations. I think the confusion that would arise if shorthands didn't reset all the related properties, even when they cannot set them, would be worse than the one you've been complaining about.
> 
> Again, I am not saying you are wrong: the situation you describe is confusing too. But it's a tradeoff, and the alternative seems worse to me.

https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/platform/usage/?q=border-image-source

border-image-source is almost unused (see * below) on the Web while the
"classic" border width, style, color properties are used on more than
90% of the Web. The 'border' shorthand can hardly be measured, for OM
reasons, but I'm pretty sure it's similar, it's everywhere. In such a
case, the html world would reply "we can't change something that big w/o
breaking things". In CSS, we do the contrary; ok, we're not "breaking"
things per se, we are only breaking an association between 9 longhands
and 1 shorthand that the whole Web has been using for more than 20
years. And people complain about it. Amazing.

* tried browsing some web sites listed in the URL above. Could not
  find a single instance of applied border-image-source through a rapid
  visit. It's used but deeper, probably in some specific areas. Then
  I made a script to visit all the stylesheets to all the sites in my
  personal bookmarks, not a single instance of 'border-image-source'.
  Exactly what everyone said a while ago: super-powerful feature but
  also too complicated (the slicing part is considered "painful" by
  many web authors) and all in all, people don't use it.

</Daniel>
Received on Friday, 15 December 2017 08:40:20 UTC

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