W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > March 2016

Re: [css-pseudo] Need a way to styling the disclosure triangle of the <details> (or <summary>) element

From: Xidorn Quan <quanxunzhen@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 08:53:45 +0800
Message-ID: <CAMdq69-YV9Ey7559DrohpQL6YDse5=x_Hs1=pDzqsLb0myMtvQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>
Cc: "Tab Atkins Jr." <jackalmage@gmail.com>, Daniel Glazman <daniel.glazman@disruptive-innovations.com>, www-style list <www-style@w3.org>
On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 6:31 AM, fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>
wrote:

> On 03/08/2016 11:20 AM, Tab Atkins Jr. wrote:
>
>>
>> No, I got you, but it sounds like you're not understanding *me*.  A
>> horizontal navbar *is not a table rendition*.  It's not a table in any
>> way, shape, or form.  It's just a one-line horizontal arrangement of
>> blocks.  (Or if it *is* a table, then so is block layout - that's just
>> a one-line vertical arrangement of blocks. This beggars the definition
>> of "table".)
>>
>> People do not think "oh, this navbar is basically a table, I should
>> use display:table for it, that seems appropriate".  They think "I need
>> these to be horizontal. display:table does that, I guess I'll use it".
>> It's a functional understanding of the values - they have some effect,
>> I need that effect, I'll use them.  It's just a tool in their toolbox,
>> sitting right next to "lots of floats" and "display:inline-block".
>>
>> There hasn't been a lot of call for "a block with a marker" yet, so I
>> wouldn't be surprised if most people haven't built up a functional
>> understanding of what display:list-item does; it's pretty reasonable
>> for them currently to think of it as "the thing that goes on <li>".
>> But there's no reason to presume that it will stay this way, and
>> people will have trouble adapting their functional understanding of
>> the value.
>>
>> (All this presumes that people *will care in the slightest*, which I
>> doubt for the most part.  We're adjusting the UA stylesheet for a
>> rarely-used element, not authoring a new tutorial guide.)
>>
>
> I agree with everything Tab has written here, fwiw. And imho using
> 'list-item' here is in no way a hack, it is a perfectly reasonable
> design.
>
> I think "block with a marker" will become more popular as we improve
> its styling capabilities, and this will therefore seem less weird in
> hindsight, not more.


I'm sympathetic to glazou's concern. It seems to me list-item, as well as
all list-* properties, isn't really a good name for things here. I
expressed similiar concern since the very beginning of this thread, though
not as strong as glazou's.

There are lots of discussions here around why list-item is fine. Let's try
considering the other side: why do you think adding an alias for them is
not good? If aliasing makes things less confusing for future use, I think
it should be fine. What would be hurt if we do that?

- Xidorn
Received on Wednesday, 9 March 2016 00:54:55 UTC

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