W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > June 2015

Re: [css-text-decor][css-ruby] Underline position for Japanese text with ruby

From: Shinyu Murakami <murakami@vivliostyle.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2015 16:23:29 +0900
To: fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>
Cc: Xidorn Quan <quanxunzhen@gmail.com>, www-style list <www-style@w3.org>, Masayuki Nakano <masayuki@d-toybox.com>, Koji Ishii <kojiishi@gmail.com>
Message-Id: <20150628162326.F26F.3B6C55AB@vivliostyle.com>
Hi,

Japanese typesetting experts answered to the underline (sideline) with ruby question:
https://twitter.com/works014/status/615042763835310080
(On my recent case, the sideline was inside the ruby. I did so without hesitation. I belive this is common.)
https://twitter.com/monokano/status/615051314335100928
(If the sideline is outside the ruby, it will be unclear which is emphasised, base or annotation.)

I agree with them. So I think the current behavior is good:

> > 分|わ
> > か|
> > る|
> >
> > (This is actually the current behavior of Firefox Nightly)

--
Shinyu Murakami (村上 真雄)
CEO & Founder, Vivliostyle Inc.
http://vivliostyle.com
murakami@vivliostyle.com


fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net> wrote on 2015-06-27 20:41:43
> On 06/26/2015 08:25 PM, Xidorn Quan wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Recently, Masayuki mentioned that, for Japanese, if a piece of
> > text in vertical writing mode has both ruby and underline, the
> > underline should be outside ruby annotation, like:
> >
> > 分わ|
> > か |
> > る |
> >
> > However, implementors who are not aware of this will tend to implement that as:
> >
> > 分|わ
> > か|
> > る|
> >
> > (This is actually the current behavior of Firefox Nightly)
> >
> > I know the current spec says the exact position of underline is
> > UA-defined, but I guess it at least worths a note. Actually, I
> > don't think this is a behavior could be covered by "UA-defined".
> >
> > As an implementor, I feel it looks hard to implement, but probably
> > not something impossible.
> >
> > Also it seems to me this is not mentioned in JLReq. I guess we
> > should also cc people there and ask their opinion about this.
> 
> Good point. I agree with asking the JLTF to put a clarification
> into JLREQ--for this situation in both horizontal and vertical
> text--and we should follow up by figuring out a good model for
> handling this in CSS. I'm not 100% sure what that should be, as
> there might also be cases where the underline should go between
> the ruby and the base.
> 
> At the moment, I lean towards saying that underline specified
> directly on a ruby container should be under the lowest level
> of text, overline should be over the highest level of text, and
> line-through should be applied to the base level.
> 
> Decorations specified on a descendant of the ruby container
> should of course only apply within that descendant's level.
> 
> But for ancestors of the ruby container, I am less sure what the
> correct answer should be.
> 
> ~fantasai
Received on Sunday, 28 June 2015 07:24:12 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Friday, 25 March 2022 10:08:55 UTC