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Re: [css-counter-styles] allow use of CSS4 "alt" property with @counter-style/symbols

From: Reece Dunn <msclrhd@googlemail.com>
Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 10:24:40 +0100
Message-ID: <CAGdtn25CRjPZfJnJaV2oyfUeyf-AdS4Ms1A4uPEoFVxORFHQWg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Xidorn Quan <quanxunzhen@gmail.com>
Cc: James Craig <jcraig@apple.com>, www-style list <www-style@w3.org>, "Tab Atkins Jr." <jackalmage@gmail.com>
On 15 May 2014 09:47, Xidorn Quan <quanxunzhen@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 11:36 AM, James Craig <jcraig@apple.com> wrote:
>> Speak-as may account for some simple cases (like the numeric example
>> below), but does not allow authors to designate alternative text for the
>> symbol-based markers. If you just want numeric markers, there's no reason to
>> use "symbols" at all.
>> The following example is admittedly contrived, but is a better
>> illustration of what cannot be accomplished with the "speak-as" property.
>>     symbols: ◰ ◳ ◲ ◱;
>>     alt: 'foo' 'bar' 'baz' 'bop';
>> "speak-as" provides pretty good coverage of CSS 2's "list-style-type"
>> property, but AFAICT it doesn't provide sufficient coverage of CSS3's
>> "symbols" property.
> Actually, it can do what you want it to do. Consider this:
> @counter-style a {
>   system: fixed;
>   symbols: ◰ ◳ ◲ ◱;
>   speak-as: b;
> }
> @counter-style b {
>   system: fixed;
>   symbols: foo bar baz bop;
>   speak-as: alphabetic;
> }
> The spec seems to be ambiguous by saying alphabetic is "spell it out
> letter-by-letter", but in my current implementation for Firefox, this should
> give you exactly what you want.

The spell out "letter-by-letter" note is for e.g. lower-alpha that
will generate things like "aa", "ab", ..., "bq", "aaaabvg". Speaking
these as words will result in nonsensical pronunciations.

However, I do see a case for words like you have written above (as per
this case). So maybe there needs to be a "speak-as: words;" to cover
this case. You could also have:

@counter-style box-corner-spoken {
  system: fixed;
  symbols: "top left", "top right", "bottom right", "bottom left";
  speak-as: words;

Given a modification of the original example:

@counter-style box-corner {
    system: fixed;
    symbols: ◰ ◳ ◲ ◱;
    suffix: ':';
    speak-as: alphabetic; /* force reading the Unicode characters */

I would expect the screen reader to use an appropriate pronunciation
of those symbols (this is a quality of implementation issue). For
number-like symbols (fractions, roman numerals, counting rod numerals,
etc.), a screen reader could interpret this as numbers (e.g. "roman
numeral 145" or "counting rod 67").

The alphabetic speak-as form specifies that the codepoints are read in
the document's language. An issue with using "speak-as: words;" is
that the language may be different. Therefore, you should be able to
use the language specifier, e.g.:

@counter-style box-corner-spoken:lang(de) {
  system: fixed;
  symbols: "oben links", "oben rechts", "unten rechts", "unten links";
  speak-as: words;

I am not sure if this is valid in the current spec (:lang() can be
used on element selectors (e.g. `p:lang(gd)`), but I am not sure if
they can be used on at-rules).

- Reece H. Dunn [http://reecedunn.co.uk]
Received on Thursday, 15 May 2014 09:25:07 UTC

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