- From: fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>
- Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 10:00:05 -0700
- To: "MURATA Makoto (FAMILY Given)" <eb2m-mrt@asahi-net.or.jp>
- CC: www-international@w3.org, "www-style@w3.org" <www-style@w3.org>
[Adding back www-style] On 10/26/2010 06:28 AM, MURATA Makoto (FAMILY Given) wrote: >> On 2010/10/26 17:26, John Daggett wrote: >>> Martin J. Dürst wrote: >>> > Sorry to jump into this discussion without potentially understanding all >>> > the details, but while it is to a large extent possible e.g. in Japanese >>> > to switch from horizontal to vertical just by switching styling, there >>> > are some aspects of this switch that need more work. A typical example >>> > is that in horizontal text, you may use Arabic numerals (0123...), >>> > whereas in vertical text, Kanji numbers (�Z���O...) may be preferred. >>> >>> Might be better to define 'chinese-numerals' as a value for >>> 'text-transform', which transforms u+030-039 to the appropriate chinese >>> numeral characters. Then you would simply have: >>> horizonal.css: .number { text-transform: none; } >>> vertical.css: .number { text-transform: chinese-numerals; } >>> >>> The ability to have different stylesheets for different writing modes >>> provides authors more options for styling content. > > Martin and John, > > I once tried find some definitions of han-ideographic representations of > numbers. I find that there are no standards or laws. Some laws > mention example representations, but they are just too sketchy. > > How do Japanese represent numbers using han-ideographic characters? > There are more than one way to represent numbers. > > For example, 35 can be represented by > > 三五, > 三十五, > 参五, or > 参拾五 > > 305 can be represented by > > 三〇五, > 三百五, > 参百五, or > 参〇五 > > and 10035 can be represented by > > 一万三十五, > 壱萬参拾五, > 壱〇〇参五, > 一〇〇三五, or > 1万35 > > I do not believe that we can provide automatic conversion from numbers > to han-ideographic representations. It's true that there are many ways to represent numbers in Han characters. It's also true that there are many ways to represent numbers in the Latin script. I can write 1,000,000 1 million one million etc. But, as with the various Han representations, only one of those is in a decimal system: the others are mixtures of digits and words. We can transform decimal to decimal easily. And I think this is adequate for hitting the 80% use case. For anyone who wants to do something more complicated, then more markup support is needed. But even then, HTML+CSS can do it: <abbr class="number" title="三十五">35</abbr> vertical.css: abbr.number { content: attr(title) } So I don't really see this issue as a problem. Also, I think it is not a showstopper if numbers cannot be converted from the preferred form for vertical to the preferred form for horizontal: it might not adhere to the full force of typographic tradition, but using decimal digits in vertical is neither wrong nor uncommon. ~fantasai
Received on Tuesday, 26 October 2010 18:20:09 UTC