- From: Markus Ernst <derernst@gmx.ch>
- Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 10:55:17 +0200
- To: timeless <timeless@gmail.com>, Simetrical+w3c@gmail.com
- Cc: www-style@w3.org, gabriele.romanato@gmail.com
-------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Datum: Tue, 18 May 2010 11:09:41 +0300 > Von: timeless <timeless@gmail.com> > On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 2:34 AM, Aryeh Gregor <Simetrical+w3c@gmail.com> > wrote: > > I mean, are there any languages where <ol> will display by default > > with localized, non-decimal numerals? > > Well, if you consider java implemented browsers: > http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=4210199 > > http://www-archive.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla1.8b1/known-issues-int.html > The default for contextual numeric alteration has changed since > Mozilla 1.4 Western digits in Arabic documents are no longer > automatically replaced with Arabic digits in a context-sensitive > manner. To activate the contextual replacement of Western digits with > Arabic ones, type about:config in the location bar and set the value > of the preference item bidi.numeral to 1 (Bug 181711). Alternatively, > you can edit user.js by locating the file in the profile directory and > using a text editor that can handle UTF-8 encoding. > > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=181711 > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=151374 > http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/intl/nls_0to3.asp > http://www.unicode.org/book/ch13.pdf, p. 320 > > > By default, we should always display the nominal forms with no > substitution. > > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-iri/2003May/0010.html > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd317791(VS.85).aspx > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd373769(VS.85).aspx > > http://blogs.msdn.com/michkap/archive/2005/09/09/462920.aspx > http://blogs.msdn.com/michkap/archive/2004/12/01/272864.aspx > > Probably one of my favorite entries on this topic is: > http://blogs.msdn.com/michkap/archive/2006/10/02/783066.aspx > > I think the short answer is "yes, there are some Windows locales where > '0' .. '9' are not rendered as Western, and thus there should be some > versions of at least IE for which this is the case." That's interesting, though I don't understand all of it. Before I read the CSS3 lists spec, as a dumb, euro-centric web author, my expectation was that the list item markers in an <ol> by default would adapt to what is most common in the element's language (not the user language), respectively to what browser implementors assume to be most common. I would have expected list item markers to be different in both lists of a code such as: <html lang="de"> <body> <ol> <li>...</li> </ol> <ol lang="ja"> <li>...</li> </ol> </body> </html> To achieve this with the current CSS3 spec I need to specify the list-style-type value separately for all languages used. Even more, I need to know the exact HTML structure when writing the CSS, as language attributes can occur in any of the parent elements of the list. So, from an author's POV a generic numeric value seems highly desirable to me. I even still think the generic value would be a good default, as the most common case should not require extra code. Authors aware of local or contxtual variations are still free to use their preferred list-style-types (they have to do this with the current spec anyway). Of course, after reading Aryeh Gregors messages I am aware of the fact that I have little idea about possible difficulties in defining what is most common in some languages. Inconsistent rendering across browsers could occur. I am not sure whether that would be a big problem in this case, as authors who really care can just apply the list-style-type property. -- GMX.ch - Schweizer FreeMail-Dienst mit über 800.000 Mitgliedern E-Mail & mehr! Kostenlos: http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/chfreemail
Received on Tuesday, 18 May 2010 09:22:32 UTC