W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > November 2009

Re: New values for Float property

From: Tab Atkins Jr. <jackalmage@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 12:23:31 -0600
Message-ID: <dd0fbad0911301023o6a4a66f5p9967d5e8197c158c@mail.gmail.com>
To: news <news@terrainformatica.com>
Cc: Salar <salarsoftwares@gmail.com>, www-style <www-style@w3.org>
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Andrew Fedoniouk
<news@terrainformatica.com> wrote:
> Tab Atkins Jr. wrote:
>> On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 8:34 AM, Salar <salarsoftwares@gmail.com> wrote:
>> ... especially when float is *actually* used
>> typographically, not just as a hacky page layout tool.
> Golden principle of constructive discussion: "Criticizing - propose".

I was not criticizing anything about what Salar said.  It was an
offhand remark.  When you're using floats typographically, it *is*
useful to have them pay attention to the text-direction of the block.
The latter statement was merely for contrast.

> What are alternatives to "float as a hacky page layout tool"
> in modern CSS and in foreseeable future?

CSS Table Module in current CSS, and the various layout modules in the future.

> Just for the note, this is style sheet of W3 front page:
>  http://www.w3.org/2008/site/css/advanced
> Rhetoric question: is massive float use there
> a hacky page layout tool or not?


> I mean that www-style list is not the place where phrases
> "float as a hacky layout tool" or "table as a hacky layout tool" make real
> sense. CSS has no alternatives to them, sorry.

Of course it is.  If something sucks, it sucks (and floats do indeed
suck for layout - it's absolutely astonishing that we are able to
abuse them as much as we do, and that we actually have interop in
those crazy abuses).  This is precisely the place to discuss such

Though, this *thread* isn't really the place.  I made an offhand
remark.  It was not meant to derail the discussion into talk of the
relative merits of different layout tools.  This thread's about float
becoming text-direction dependent.

On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Alan Gresley <alan@css-class.com> wrote:
> This is not entirely correct. right-to-left layout with floats is currently
> implemented correctly in the latest versions of Firefox and IE8 with rtl
> bidirection (dir="rtl"). Fails in both Safari and Opera.

Huh.  I don't see that interpretation supported in the specs, though.
float:left says that it floats *to the left*, not to whichever side is
the opposite of the text progression direction.  Perhaps this is a

Received on Monday, 30 November 2009 18:24:08 UTC

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