- From: fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>
- Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 11:50:38 -0800
- To: www-style@w3.org
Summary:
- Discussed position of list-item markers in the presence of floats and/or
text-align when 'list-style-position' is 'outside'. fantasai suggests
leaving behavior for floats undefined in CSS 2.1, and to ask web designers
what they think wrt text-align.
http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-86
- Discussed how to clarify that comments are allowed at the beginning and
end of a style sheet, not just between statements. Bert actioned to write
a proposal.
http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-87
- Briefly discussed recent changes to Apple's Transformations and Transitions
specs.
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008Nov/0493.html
- Discussed Selectors API's Last Call and the removal of namespace support.
CSSWG has no further comments.
- Reviewed status and expected progress on high-priority specs, need for
Members to contribute test suites and how to coordinate contributions.
- Discussed whether anonymous outer table box is a block formatting context.
Seem to have consensus on that wrt floats, but there is still an open
question about whether the caption and table margins collapse.
Alex to propose exact text for later discussion.
http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-88
====== Full minutes below ======
Attendees:
David Baron
Bert Bos
Arron Eicholz
Elika Etemad
Sylvain Galineau
Daniel Glazman
Melinda Grant
Alex Mogilevsky
Saloni Mira Rai
David Singer
Mohamed Zergaoui
Steve Zilles
ScribeNick:sylvaing
List-Item Marker Positioning
----------------------------
<glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008Nov/0298.html
* dbaron did not have a chance to read it
Saloni explains how list marker positioning implementations conflict
with spec
dbaron: we are close to interoperable behavior
dbaron, fantasai: but this is not a simple issue
fantasai: we could say that in the presence of floats, the position of
the marker is undefined
dbaron: it's the combination of both float and text-align
fantasai suggests getting feedback from web designer
<fantasai> "The position of the list-item marker in the presence of floats
is undefined in CSS2.1."
fantasai: position of the marker around floats could be undefined in 2.1
<fantasai> I think we should ask web designers for feedback on the
text-align issue
<fantasai> We might get a straight answer, in which case we can define that
fantasai: floats is the more complex case
glazou: let's take a week to study this and get back to it next week.
<dbaron> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008Feb/0116.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008Feb/0118.html
were my comments on the css3 proposals
ACTION: glazou Ask web-designers how list-item markers should behave in the
presence of text-align != start
<fantasai> (wrt ACTION-118, for list-item-position: outside; behavior is
defined for inside)
<fantasai> http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-86
fantasai: jason's answer on list marker is that centering text does
not move the marker but right alignment moves the marker
<fantasai> to the right side of the list
fantasai will post jason's response to www-style
Where Are Comments Allowed
--------------------------
<glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008Nov/0494.html
dbaron: the spec also says that @charset directive must be at the beginning
dbaron: so this would be a case where comments cannot be at the top
bert: we might still want to clarify the wording
ACTION: bert to propose new wording
<fantasai> http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-87
Transformations and Transitions
-------------------------------
<dbaron> for the 2-D part, not the 3-D part
glazou: transformations can be demo'ed interoperably in WebKit and Mozilla;
can we move the spec to CR ?
dsinger explains changes to document e.g. property value types have been
clarified
(scribe did not catch the first change)
dsinger: we also want to drive the spec forward to complete interoperable
implementations
dsinger: we are working on test suites as well; no estimates yet. will get
one
dbaron: we have tests, may not be in a useful format yet
mozilla, apple to work together on tests. will keep the mailing list posted.
<dsinger> I worked on (a) which properties are animatable/transitionable,
precisely (it used to say something vague) and (b) what does it
mean to animate/transition all the value types which can be
(e.g. color means interpolating in RGB, like SVG)
glazou: i demoed transforms and transitions at Paris Web and the feedback
was very positive
glazou: most welcomed was backgrounds and borders, media queries,
transitions and transforms
glazou: interest in CSS 2.1 was essentially zero
<dsinger> thank you for the encouraging report
glazou: innovation would increase the profile of the WG. the sooner we
have tests and specs the better.
Selectors API Last Call
-----------------------
glazou: Selectors API Last Call WD. Namespace matching was removed.
does the WG have comments ?
dbaron: 2/3 of the spec's complexity for implementors and the spec was
namespaces even though most authors care less about it
bert: is the next version going to support namespaces ?
<glazou> http://www.w3.org/TR/selectors-api/
<glazou> http://www.w3.org/TR/selectors-api/#resolving
dbaron: I thought there was a plan for eventual support. BorisZ did
have an implementation until this was dropped from the spec
glazou: nothing in the document indicating this is to be resolved in
a future version of the document
glazou: dbaron, are you saying this is not worth the implementation cost ?
dbaron: it is worth considering for the next version. for now, this is
the right thing to do
<dbaron> I think what's in this draft is something that can go to REC
quickly; if it had namespaces it wouldn't be able to.
glazou: will communicate our WG has no further comments on Selectors
API Last Call
Charter and Priority
--------------------
glazou: review period for the charter ended a week ago.
glazou: except for a minor comment, the charter is likely going to be
approved.
<dbaron> glazou, you're breaking up
(glazou also in orbit)
<glazou> http://www.w3.org/Style/2008/css-charter
glazou enumerates high priority documents. all of them need test
suites and these are on the critical path
<dsinger> bubble bubble bubble
fantasai: HP is working on paged media tests. Opera has a test suite
for media queries
dbaron: mozilla has a few tests for backgrounds and borders that could
be useful
<dsinger> who was the proponent?
<dsinger> (I will ask here what we have, but it's out of my field, so
I don't know)
fantasai is editor, reports no time to write a test suite
<alexmog> can we do a few minutes on table captions?
<Bert> (I'm co-editor, I should probably contribute some tests, too...)
glazou reviews which specs are implemented or partially implemented
dbaron: of the specs in medium priority we care most about fonts,
transformations and transitions, values & units and multicol
glazou: and these are the ones web designers are most interested in
microsoft : no priorities yet. apple agrees with current priorities.
<alexmog> http://www.w3.org/Style/2008/css-charter
Anonymous Outer Table Box and Caption
-------------------------------------
<glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008Nov/0483.html
<fantasai> http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-88
alexmog explains the issue
fantasai: agree that the anonymous table box is a block formatting
context wrt floats; not sure we want to block margin collapsing
<dbaron> The other issue with margin collapsing is where the margins of
the table itself go.
* fantasai thinks the diagram is very clear on this, and we had a very
long discussion about it
<fantasai> which resulted in the current diagram
* sylvaing is having TPAC margin collapsing flashbacks
* glazou too
alexmog and fantasai having a long conversation about margin collapsing
between caption and table
fantasai, glazou: what do other implementers expect ?
alexmog suggests treating anonymous box as a BFC except allowing outer
caption margin to collapse with outer table margin
alexmog would prefer, however, not to do the collapsing because of
complexity
alexmog to make a proposal to be reviewed next week
<dsinger> thanks!
Meeting closed.
Received on Thursday, 27 November 2008 19:52:45 UTC