- From: Vadim Plessky <lucy-ples@mtu-net.ru>
- Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:50:58 +0000
- To: Matthew Brealey <webmaster@richinstyle.com>, www-style@w3.org
- Cc: Lars Knoll <lars@trolltech.com>
Friday 09 February 2001 10:36, Matthew Brealey ΞΑΠΙΣΑΜ: | --- Kyle VanderBeek <kylev@yaga.com> wrote: | > | > The solution is, of course, to be explicit about colors that may | > interact (simply: "If you override one color, you should override them | > all"). In this case, the stylesheet should specify the A:link set of | > pseudo-classes since link text will be on top of the specified | > background. Failing to do so produces unpredictable results in the | > user agent. | | You are quite correct in this, and this is indeed a deficiency on the | W3C site; although, by no means restricted to this site - when | incompetent CSS is even built into the world's most popular browser | [Internet Explorer] [*], it seems that we aren't likely to | get 'correct' and accessible style sheets any time soon. | You already don't get it. Look at www.zdnet.com - it uses 4 different CSS tables, for each type of browser/platform combination. (IE-Mac, IE-Win, NS-Mac, NS-Win) Beisdes, I have seen sites installing 6 or even 8 different CSS tables, depending on own Browser Selection criteria. What is also sad is that Linux (not speaking about FreeBSD or embedded widgets) is totally ignored in such browser-check-type*install-CSS-for-it sequences. | > First, I'd like to see the W3 stylesheets "fixed" so I can again read | > W3 specifications in Konqueror. | | This would be a good idea. However, it doesn't really address the wider | problem of bad websites, which IMHO, will only get worse as more people | use style sheets - it's far easier to create a bad style sheet that | assumes that the user is using Internet Explorer with the factory | settings, than to create an accessible one. With websites now created: | Correct. | (a) using tagsoup tools such as Dreamweaver and Front Page | (b) according to the final result rather than by formatting a | structured document | (c) by incompetent programmers That's all right, but what do you propose about it? It is real life situation. MS has around 85% market share. Netscape marketshare decreases rapidly. For example, here, in Russia, Netscape share dropped from 15% beginning of the year 2000 to 8% in Nov.2000. And, BTW, only 0.68% accounted for Mozilla/NS6. | the problem will only get worse (particularly as programs like | Dreamweaver will make it even easier to integrate your bad CSS into a | site). | | The standard complacent response to you would be to suggest that you | create a user style sheet. | | BODY {background: #ddd !important; | color: black !important} | | However, these are much easier said than done, and don't, quite | frankly, provide a consistent solution - it is difficult to get the | same style sheet to work on pages made from tables with backgrounds and | on pages with margins on the body element. | | [Incidentally, I'm not sure if Konqueror allows you to use user style | sheets; it certainly didn't last time I used it, but that was v1.93.] Konqueror allows it. See related mail from Lars Knoll on kfm-devel. Pls do not make *suggestions* on Konqueror before updating your version to latest stable. KDE 2.1 will be released on Feb.12th, update to it. | | This turns out to be a user agent issue, since it's not [short of | legislative changes of the kind that have been applied in Australia, | and that apply in the USA to governmental organisations] really | possible to effect changes to the ever growing tide of such websites. | As a result, you might like to investigate improving Konqueror's | handling of this issue, or else use Opera, which has a variety of ways | of dealing with this issue, including hotkey togglable style sheets, | the ability to disable parts of the document's style [tables, colours, | fonts, etc.], etc. | | > Second, I think it would be good to include | > mention of the issues I am raising in this email in a future edition of | > relevant recommendations (HTML, XHTML, and CSS all come to mind). | | Indeed. This specific issue has been mentioned before. | | However, it is neither appropriate nor possible to provide a complete | list of recommendations; furthermore, too few people read and fully | digest the specification for it to make any difference. | | * Try Tools/Internet Options, and then Accessibility. Click ignore font | sizes and ignore font styles. Then go to res://madeup. This brings up a | 404 page, which will be unsightly in the extreme because of the use of | an absolute size (11pt) for line-height. This bad CSS is unfortunately | present in every single page in Internet Explorer. :-) And, once more, what do you suggest to do about it? It looks like that MS IE6 will be integrated in Windows XP (a-ka Witzler), so it would be quite difficult to install different browser in Windows and make it usable for something. -- Vadim Plessky http://kde2.newmail.ru (English) http://kde2.newmail.ru/index_rus.html (Russian) Do you have Arial font installed? Just test it! http://kde2.newmail.ru/font_test_arial.html
Received on Friday, 9 February 2001 07:17:33 UTC